[SI-LIST] Re: NELCO N-13ep HiTg > 170C
- From: steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Richard Jungert <r_jungert@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:44:39 -0700
We're not in Kansas anymore. ( Well Eric is but that's only because he
likes watching cows spin in tornadoes. ) The days of TTL/CMOS signaling
with one end terminated at speed are long gone. So, why the drive for
such tight Z control as +/-5%? The difference in ISI energy at the
receiver between a +/-10% match and a +/-5% match for both ends
terminated signaling standards is less than 1%. Why throw any time or
money at such a small improvement?
Steve
Richard Jungert wrote:
> Steve.
>
> Yes, +/- 5% is higher, how much depends on your fab house. I would have to
> shop around if we needed lower cost. At the time 3 years ago I was building
> test equipment and yes the board was expensive. The application we were
> working on demanded tight impedance control.
>
>
> BTW.
>
> This guy..
> Vince BeusanMEI Inc(949)460-9500www.mei4pcbs.comTells me in a recent email
> that his fab shop can do +/-5% all day long no problem but I have not worked
> with them in the past. Maybe these guys have an updated fab process set up
> where they can do tighter tolerance at lower cost. Only way to find out is
> to try it.
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>> From: wftinghi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: r_jungert@xxxxxxxxxxx; bdempsey85@xxxxxxxxx; costel_t@xxxxxxxxx;
>> si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: NELCO N-13ep HiTg > 170C
>> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 10:22:01 +0800
>>
>> Richard,
>>
>> So how about the cost? I feel +/-5% tolerance impedance control will
>> increase the PCB cost a lot.
>> The most local FAB houses I worked with will increase the cost if we are
>> trying to specify tolerance less than 10% due to their worse yield rate.
>> Specifying 5% tolerance can easily double the cost according to their
>> feedbacks.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Richard Jungert
>> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:12 AM
>> To: Bill Dempsey; costel_t@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: NELCO N-13ep HiTg > 170C
>>
>> I promote Data Circuits Systems/Merix because they can spec 50 ohms +/- 5%
>> tolerance which in my experience is rare in the high speed pcb fab business.
>> Or at least it was 3 years ago.. Tektronix also uses this material in
>> building fast TDR test equipment last I heard.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: bdempsey85@xxxxxxxxx
>>> To: r_jungert@xxxxxxxxxxx; costel_t@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: NELCO N-13ep HiTg > 170C
>>> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 16:02:59 -0500
>>>
>>> 13EP is available as 13EP-SI as well and is used for higher temp
>>>
>> processing
>>
>>> used in lead-free assembly.
>>> *Most* customers I deal with are moving over to EP and EP-SI for RoHS
>>> products. Something to consider.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>
>> On
>>
>>> Behalf Of Richard Jungert
>>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 3:58 PM
>>> To: costel; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: NELCO N-13ep HiTg > 170C
>>>
>>> Costel.
>>>
>>> I would talk to the engineers at Data Circuits in San Jose about this
>>> material. Merix recently bought them out but in the old days it was Data
>>> Circuits Systems Inc who built equipment with this type of material.
>>>
>>> Have you considered Nelco N4000-13SI ? This is also a very high
>>>
>> performance
>>
>>> material and in my recent designs/projects have found this material works
>>> clear up to 15Ghz bandwidth.
>>>
>>> I recommend calling the FAB house your working with. These folks have that
>>> info readily available.
>>>
>>> Richard Jungert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 03:31:05 -0700
>>>> From: costel_t@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] NELCO N-13ep HiTg > 170C
>>>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> Can anybody tell me the prepreg thicknesses for NELCO N4000-13EP
>>>> much apreciated
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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