[SI-LIST] Re: Mentor Hyperlinx ?

Hello Joel, et al.

You mentioned that all of your clocks were at 1.5 GHz or slower, and that 
someone from Mentor mentioned that loss was only important at 10 GHz.  I think 
there may be a misunderstanding here, and I think that some clarification would 
be important.

At 1 GHz and higher, I would definitely recommend running a simulator that 
models dielectric loss, which can cause significant rise time degradation, and 
begins to gain significance above 500 MHz.  At 1.5 GHz, too, you may be unable 
to get IBIS models from your IC vendor, and may instead need to simulate with 
HSPICE.  HyperLynx GHz (and/or LineSim GHz) would help you with all of the 
above.

If you can reply to me offline with where you're located, and whom you are 
speaking with, I'll contact them with this information, as well.  

Thanks!

Bill Hargin
Mentor Graphics Corp.
Systems Design Division
High-Speed Tools
425-497-5079 - Direct

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Kaiser [mailto:david.kaiser@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 2:34 PM
> To: joel@xxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Mentor Hyperlinx ?
> 
> 
> 
> We have both Hyperlynx Linesim with Crosstalk 7.0 as well as the GHz=
>  option. Hyperlynx is actually relatively inexpensive 
> compared to other=
>  tools such as ICX. It is very easy to use and they have pretty good=
>  support (I would suggest buying the tech support with any 
> Mentor tool) The=
>  biggest trick is getting good IBIS models from the device 
> vendors, but=
>  this is getting better and better and time goes on. They can 
> usually be=
>  downloaded from the vendors web site.
> 
> Hyperlynx allows us to use our board stackup to do very quick 
> "what-if"=
>  simulations for overshoot, ringback, monotonicity, Xtalk, 
> etc. You can=
>  come up to speed on the tool in just a few hours. You may 
> also need to=
>  come up to speed on the fundamentals of IBIS models syntax, 
> but this tool=
>  comes with an easy to use IBIS editor and parser as well as a online=
>  document on the IBIS specificatons.=20
> 
> As for the GHz option, this allows lossy simulations (which 
> is sometimes=
>  necessay when simulating very fast edge rates) as well as 
> the ability to=
>  work with spice models (but we haven't tapped much into the spice=
>  interface yet).
> 
> I would strongly recommend this tool if you can afford it, as 
> least the=
>  Linesime w/crosstalk if not the GHz option.
> 
> David Kaiser
> 4 McDATA Pkwy.
> Broomfield, CO 80021
> (720) 558-4431
> david.kaiser@xxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Brown [mailto:joel@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:29 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Mentor Hyperlinx ?
> 
> 
> I have been looking at Mentor Hyperlinx since we need some signal
> integrity tools for PCB layout. We had a demo from their local sales
> office and it looks pretty good. It is very expensive and we 
> are a small
> company without a lot of cash, but I feel we need some signal 
> integrity
> tools since we are starting to do high speed designs (DVI, USB 2.0 and
> SATA). Also we tend to run signals through a long path consisting of
> multiple boards, connectors and cables. I feel a tool like this would
> help to identify problems that we would otherwise not 
> recognize until a
> marginal product failed in the field. They also have a GHz 
> which adds a
> lot to the price, which Mentor says is required for designs above 10
> GHz. All of our designs are 1.5 GHz or less fundamental 
> frequency, so I
> am not sure if we need to spend the extra money on the GHz option. I
> would appreciate any feedback from people who have used Hyperlinx and
> suggestions of lower cost alternatives.
> =20
> Joel Brown
> VP Engineering
> Z Microsystems, Inc.
> 
> =20
> 
> 
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