[SI-LIST] Re: Maximum Frequency for S-parameter Extraction of Board Power Plane

  • From: steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: Rohit MISHRA <rohit.mishra@xxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 01:25:49 -0700

Why do you think you can ignore the package in the frequency ranges that 
you consider the PCB for power delivery?
Why do you think that Fknee is the highest frequency you need to consider?

Steve.
On 5/19/2011 12:26 AM, Rohit MISHRA wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Interesting discussion, Indeed !!
>
> Now in case if we extract power plane s-parameter for package, what would be 
> the minimum&  maximum frequency ??
>
> As per my understanding :
>
> Minimum frequency = 3 X cut off frequency of board
> Maximum Frequency = Knee frequency
>
> Experts comments please.
>
> Rohit
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 10:12 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Maximum Frequency for S-parameter Extraction of Board 
> Power Plane
>
> I might add that one has to make sure that the S-parameter data
> goes down low enough in frequency, preferably to 0 Hz, otherwise
> the simulators will have to guess on how to solve for the DC
> components of the signal...  Based on the "your guess is as good
> as mine" principle your results may vary...
>
> Arpad
> ==================================================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Beal, Weston
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:32 AM
> To: Rajan Hansa; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Maximum Frequency for S-parameter Extraction of
> Board Power Plane
>
> Make sure that you consider not only the maximum frequency. You also
> need to make sure that your S-parameter set has enough data points to
> correctly model all the resonances in the measured frequency band. If
> you have too few data points, and the graph of the S-parameters over
> frequency looks choppy or jagged, then the model will probably be
> non-causal.
>
> S-parameters are like power tools. A skilled user can get a lot done
> with them, but if used carelessly, they can hurt you.
>
> Weston
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Rajan Hansa
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:44 AM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Maximum Frequency for S-parameter Extraction of Board
> Power Plane
>
> Hello All,
>
>
> I have got a PCB database of one Ethernet Board and I have to extract
> s-parameter for all power plane from voltage regulator to  power pin of
> chip package. The Board database includes all decap.
>
>
>
> As we know extraction time is directly related with maximum frequency So
> while setting maximum frequency for s-parameter extraction, I am bit
> confused, I would like to know that do I need to set knee frequency (
> Fknee = 0.35/Trise) as maximum frequency OR for board level simulation
> we shouldn't care knee frequency.
>
>
>
> As per my understanding, package inductance won't allow very high
> frequency component (switching current component which depends on Trise
> !!) to travel to board from chip so voltage regulator in board will
> never see those high switching current so I shouldn't simulate/extract
> s-parameter till knee frequency.
>
>
>
> What's expert view on this ?
>
>
>
> Rgds,
>
> Rajan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>
> List technical documents are available at:
>                  http://www.si-list.net
>
> List archives are viewable at:
>               //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>               http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>
> List technical documents are available at:
>                  http://www.si-list.net
>
> List archives are viewable at:
>               //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>               http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>
> List technical documents are available at:
>                  http://www.si-list.net
>
> List archives are viewable at:
>               //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>               http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>
> List technical documents are available at:
>                  http://www.si-list.net
>
> List archives are viewable at:
>               //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>               http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
>
>


-- 
Steve Weir
IPBLOX, LLC
150 N. Center St. #211
Reno, NV  89501
www.ipblox.com

(775) 299-4236 Business
(866) 675-4630 Toll-free
(707) 780-1951 Fax


------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field

or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list

For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field


List technical documents are available at:
                http://www.si-list.net

List archives are viewable at:     
                //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
 
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
                http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
  

Other related posts: