[SI-LIST] Re: Inexpensive SI software
- From: Jeff Sutherland <jeffs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:28:00 -0500
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I've been doing a bunch of simulations on a large board using Cadstar version
11, works ok when loading IBIS files. It doesn't support the latest IBIS
package interconnect models though, I think that's giving me some
inaccuracies at high frequencies on these Intel parts. But it does support
IBIS EBD models. I plugged in a 1Gb SODIMM EBD module model I downloaded
from Micron Technology and was able to probe signals from the die pads inside
an Intel Northbridge chip all the way to the die pads of the SDRAMs on the
module. That was pretty cool. But Cadstar is not inexpensive unfortunately.
Little much for the individual operator but pretty reasonable for a small
company.
- -Jeff
On Saturday 16 January 2010, Lee Ritchey wrote:
> This is a pretty good assessment of both tools.
>
> Lee
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <alex@xxxxxxxx>
> > To: <david.pollum@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 1/16/2010 4:57:34 AM
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Inexpensive SI software
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > Altium is very good at Schematic+PCB and I've been a very happy user for
> > the last 10 years.
> >
> > Having said that, the SI and Spice simulation part of Altium is not
> > really useful for anything. Figuring out how to add the right model (and
> > in the format that _Altium_ want) is a pain. After reading the
> > documentation and trying to import some SPICE models for a few days, I
> > gave up. I've not found yet how to properly import IBIS models in
> > Altium... but I look at this over a year ago.
> >
> >
> > I'm using LTSpice (free) when I need to do simple Spice simulations. At
> > least, I get a results without spending DAYS importing Spice models.
> >
> >
> > As a happy customer of Hyperlynx, I can really recommend that tool. You
> > can buy only the "LineSim" part of it, and it should be cheaper that the
> > complete LineSim/PCB/PI/... product. With LineSim, you'll be able to
> > perform 99% of what you said you want to simulate. The big advantage is
> > that you're going to start simulating the SAME day you get the tool :)
> > and get good results. Try to get a 30 days fully functional evaluation
> > version from Mentor.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Alexandre Desnoyers
> >
> > > All:
> > > It doesn't have to be HyperLynx ;) It could be some other product. I
> > > don't know anything about
> > > Hspice, and at $12K, I can't afford it. BTW, does anyone know what
> > > Altium's Designer product's SI
> > > module is like.
> > >
> > > -Dave Pollum
> > >
> > > Joel Brown wrote:
> > >> Although we have Hyperlynx, I find myself using Hspice instead.
> > >> The drawback is you have to manually enter models in a text file but
> > >> it has
> > >> a lot of flexibility. I find Hyperlynx very clumsy when it comes to
> > >> using
> > >> different types of models such as IBIS, Hspice, RGLC, etc.
> > >> I think Hspice costs around $12K. Often IC vendors can only provide
> > >> Hspice
> > >> models and then you have no choice anyway.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>
> > >> On
> > >> Behalf Of Dave Pollum
> > >> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:47 PM
> > >> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: [SI-LIST] Inexpensive SI software
> > >>
> > >> I've been doing some freelance PCB layout using a low cost PCB CAD
> > >> software
> > >> (Cadsoft's EAGLE). I'm
> > >> getting into situations designing denser 4 layer boards where it would
> > >> handy
> > >> to use an SI tool. I'm
> > >> concerned about rise/fall times of 1 - 2 ns or faster signals,
> > >> crosstalk,
> > >> the effects of long
> > >> traces, and switching layers (top to bottom), etc. I've download the
> > >> HyperLynx demo (BoardSim &
> > >> LineSIM), and it looks really cool. But I can't actually use the demo
> > >> to
> > >> anything real. And I
> > >> suspect I can't afford it. I'd like to spend no more than $4K(USD).
>
> As
>
> > >> an
> > >> alternative, I've
> > >> considered buying Altium's Designer software ($4K) that claims to have
> > >> built-in SI abilities. Are
> > >> Altium's SI features any good?
> > >>
> > >> Suggestions, anyone?
- --
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