[SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
- From: steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:59:48 -0700
Perry, I don't think that is off-topic at all. I think ta Synopsys
risks making the same mistake as other software vendors have in the past
of relying on a market inertial to maintain dominance, and allowing the
product to become technically uncompetitive. Sometimes vendors can get
away with that for long periods of time before the market overcomes its
inertia and topples the dominant player. But when it happens the same
inertia usually makes it close to impossible for the former dominant
player to ever rise back again. Whether that will ever happen to HSPICE
I don't know. But it is possible that something like AMS will
eventually displace it leaving Synopsys with nowhere to go.
Regards,
Steve.
QU Perry wrote:
> Off topic: I hope there is a better way than writing hspice deck in text
> editor as it's error prone when the circuit gets complex and the chance
> of getting wrong nodes/connections are high. Some kind of GUI interface
> similar to ADS/Ansoft Designer would be nice.
>
> BTW, how many IC vendors are willing to provide Spice model encrypted by
> Mentor Eldo as opposed to Synopsys ? Mentor keep telling us that we can
> ask for Eldo encrypted model but I suspect not many vendors are willing
> to entertain that.
>
> Regards
>
> Perry
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
>
> Perry Qu=20
>
> Design & Qualification, Alcatel-Lucent Canada Inc.
>
> 600 March Road, Ottawa ON, K2K 2E6, Canada=20
>
> DID: 613-7846720 Fax: 613-5993642=20
>
> Email: perry.qu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
>
> =20
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of=20
>> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 1:53 PM
>> To: fialka113@xxxxxxxxx; scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
>> =20
>> When Schedules and Time to Market are important, you can=20
>> justify the cost even if the tool is used only a few months a=20
>> year. When the work load is high and constant, the ease of=20
>> use argument gets weaker as you can better benefit from=20
>> re-use and scripting and the (re-)learning curve goes away.
>> Aubrey Sparkman
>> Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team Dell, Inc.
>> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
>> (512) 723-3592
>> "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and=20
>> thinking what nobody else has thought." - Jonathan Swift=20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> ________________________________
>> =20
>> From: Julia Nekrylova [mailto:fialka113@xxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:35 PM
>> To: Sparkman, Aubrey; scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
>> =20
>> =20
>> 2) Depends on how constant your work load is. If it is high and
>> constant, then yes, I would agree with you that 50 % more=20
>> cost is easily
>> justifiable. Btw, Hspice costs 100 % more.
>> =20
>> =20
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: "Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx" <Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx>
>> To: scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: fialka113@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 8:14:00 PM
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
>> =20
>> In addition to Steve and Scott's comments, I would like to=20
>> add two more
>> comments:
>> 1) OFTEN, model accuracy is much more important than which=20
>> simulator you
>> use.
>> 2) If you have a choice of simulators, (you don't with=20
>> encrypted models)
>> how important is ease of use? For instance, if one simulator=20
>> costs 50%
>> more, but enables you to get 3 times as much done, do you care?
>> =20
>> =20
>> Aubrey Sparkman=3D20
>> Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team=3D20
>> Dell, Inc.=3D20
>> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx=3D20
>> (512) 723-3592=3D20
>> "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and=20
>> thinking what
>> nobody else has thought." - Jonathan Swift
>> =20
>> =20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Scott McMorrow
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 11:32 AM
>> To: weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: fialka113@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hspice vs. Eldo
>> =20
>> I'd agree with Steve. Usually encrypted models is the deal breaker.
>> Otherwise, Eldo is technically superior to HSPICE in the handling of
>> s-parameters.
>> =20
>> =20
>> Scott McMorrow
>> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>> 121 North River Drive
>> Narragansett, RI 02882
>> (401) 284-1827 Business
>> (401) 284-1840 Fax
>> =20
>> http://www.teraspeed.com <http://www.teraspeed.com/>=20
>> =20
>> Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of
>> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> steve weir wrote:
>>
>>> Julia, Synopsys has two almost unassailable market advantages with
>>>
>> HSPICE:
>>
>>> *A lot of models are supplied only as encrypted HSPICE=20
>>>
>> models. If you
>> =20
>>
>>> don't have HSPICE you can't play.
>>> *HSPICE is used for silicon sign-off with a number of fabs.
>>>
>>> If either of the above issues are material to you, then the
>>>
>> technical=3D20
>>
>>> merits of one simulator versus another are moot.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> Julia Nekrylova wrote:
>>> =3D20
>>>
>>>> Dear SI professionals,
>>>> My question is about Eldo vs. Hspice comparisson. With the former
>>>>
>> being roughly 2 times cheaper than the later, I wonder if it offers a
>> similar performance. I've heard that Eldo has an improved t-line
>> modeling and handles S-parameters in a more advanced fashion. I just
>> never had a chance to work with Eldo, but pricewise it's a big
>> difference for a small company like ours.
>>
>>>> Thanks again for your help,
>>>> Julia Nekrylova
>>>>
>>>> 74ze Engineering
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
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--
Steve Weir
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
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