Back at DEC (Digital) in the late 70's we had a tool call SEIN (Simulator of Electrical Interconnected Network). It was a behavioral simulator using IV curves,package models, and T-lines and looked alot like IBIS does now. We didn't sell it outside the company. I had an original copy of the users/modelers manual dated 1978 that had all the source code, early models, and simulation results. The enhanced version of this tool was still was in production use when I left compaq (~2 years ago), but was interactive and called INSEIN. Bob Haller Cereva Networks rhaller@xxxxxxxxxx 508-787-5365 -----Original Message----- From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:arpad.muranyi@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 12:58 AM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC? Chris and Aubrey, Please do not try to put words in my mouth, or make any ill-intended comments. The original question was asking "who copied who", and I was trying to give an honest answer to it. Even though there may be a lot of similarity, my work was basically an original "clean room" effort. The similarities happened unintentionally, at least on my part, and I was not involved in any game playing either... I was too busy for that since I had an engineering challenge on my mind and not political tricks. As far as who invented what, I never claimed that I invented IBIS, or behavioral modeling. In fact, whenever some of my colleagues would make attempts to introduce me as the inventor of IBIS, I tend to say a few words about that not being the case since Quad's TLC was around for a long time before IBIS came along. I even mention this in my IBIS Modeling class every time I do it, and you can see Quad's TLC being mentioned as on one of the first behavioral tools before IBIS came into existence on one of the first pages of my presentation handouts. Nevertheless, it was a satisfying feeling to me as a co-op student employee to have come up with a successful behavioral model that worked just as well as the behavioral models of a well established company. FYI, just in case your question was sincere, IBIS 1.0 came out in April 1993. Arpad ===================================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Chris Cheng [mailto:chris.cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:22 PM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC? Re-use it is. Back in the 80's I was working in a workstation company and came across this 3 men company in Santa Barbara. They sold us this timing tool and a "transmission line calculator" with these behavioral driver model. I liked it, developed SI analysis methodology around it, worked with them to fine tuned the tool and convineced my company to make it a standard physical design requirement. I won't say even they claimed using behavioral driver model is their invention but certain they were the first to package it in a CAD tool. Hats off to Larry, Chuck and Chris. And when did IBIS came out ? -----Original Message----- From: Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx [mailto:Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:35 PM To: chris.cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC? Chris, I thought he was saying he was a sharp engineer who got a (software) supplier to write a spec for him.... Some companies value employees who can do the leverage and re-use game. Aubrey Sparkman Signal Integrity Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx (512) 723-3592 > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Cheng [mailto:chris.cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:25 PM > To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC? > > > > So you are saying whether you know it or not, Quad > came up with that before you ? > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:arpad.muranyi@xxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:36 PM > To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC? > > > > HSPICE. When I was done, my supervisor told me something like: > You know that there is a tool out there that does this for about > twenty times as much more money? (In those days we were using > the DOS version of HSPICE which cost about $ 2-3000.00, and TLC > was around $40,000.00, if I remember it correctly). Of course > I was absolutely unaware of TLC in those days, this is how I > fist found out about it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Cheng [mailto:chris.cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:02 PM > To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' > Subject: [SI-LIST] Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC? > > > > While on this historical trail. Let's try to > dig up some more history, IBIS looks so much > like the original TLC driver model definition, > one has to ask : "who copy who" ? > Chris > =============================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu