[SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC?



  Back at DEC (Digital) in the late 70's we had a tool call SEIN
(Simulator of Electrical Interconnected Network). It was a behavioral
simulator using IV curves,package models, and T-lines and looked alot 
like IBIS does now. We didn't sell it outside the company.   

I had an original copy of the users/modelers manual dated 1978 that had 
all the source code, early models, and simulation results. The enhanced
version of this tool was still was in production use when I left compaq 
(~2 years ago), but was interactive and called INSEIN. 

Bob Haller
Cereva Networks
rhaller@xxxxxxxxxx
508-787-5365
  

-----Original Message-----
From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:arpad.muranyi@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 12:58 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC?



Chris and Aubrey,

Please do not try to put words in my mouth, or make any ill-intended
comments.  The original question was asking "who copied who", and I
was trying to give an honest answer to it.  Even though there may
be a lot of similarity, my work was basically an original "clean room"
effort.  The similarities happened unintentionally, at least on my
part, and I was not involved in any game playing either...  I was
too busy for that since I had an engineering challenge on my mind
and not political tricks.

As far as who invented what, I never claimed that I invented IBIS,
or behavioral modeling.  In fact, whenever some of my colleagues would
make attempts to introduce me as the inventor of IBIS, I tend to
say a few words about that not being the case since Quad's TLC
was around for a long time before IBIS came along.  I even mention
this in my IBIS Modeling class every time I do it, and you can see
Quad's TLC being mentioned as on one of the first behavioral tools
before IBIS came into existence on one of the first pages of my
presentation handouts.

Nevertheless, it was a satisfying feeling to me as a co-op student
employee to have come up with a successful behavioral model that
worked just as well as the behavioral models of a well established
company.

FYI, just in case your question was sincere, IBIS 1.0 came out in
April 1993.

Arpad
=====================================================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Cheng [mailto:chris.cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:22 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC?



Re-use it is. Back in the 80's I was working in a workstation
company and came across this 3 men company in Santa Barbara.
They sold us this timing tool and a "transmission line
calculator" with these behavioral driver model. I liked it,
developed SI analysis methodology around it, worked with 
them to fine tuned the tool and convineced my company to make 
it a standard physical design requirement. I won't say even 
they claimed using behavioral driver model is their invention
but certain they were the first to package it in a CAD tool.
Hats off to Larry, Chuck and Chris. 

And when did IBIS came out ?

-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx [mailto:Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:35 PM
To: chris.cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC?


Chris,
I thought he was saying he was a sharp engineer who got a (software)
supplier to write a spec for him....  Some companies value employees who can
do the leverage and re-use game.

Aubrey Sparkman 
Signal Integrity 
Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx 
(512) 723-3592



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Cheng [mailto:chris.cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:25 PM
> To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC?
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying whether you know it or not, Quad
> came up with that before you ?
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:arpad.muranyi@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:36 PM
> To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC?
> 
> 
> 
> HSPICE.  When I was done, my supervisor told me something like:
> You know that there is a tool out there that does this for about
> twenty times as much more money?  (In those days we were using
> the DOS version of HSPICE which cost about $ 2-3000.00, and TLC
> was around $40,000.00, if I remember it correctly).  Of course
> I was absolutely unaware of TLC in those days, this is how I
> fist found out about it.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Cheng [mailto:chris.cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:02 PM
> To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Historical question: IBIS & Quad TLC?
> 
> 
> 
> While on this historical trail. Let's try to 
> dig up some more history, IBIS looks so much
> like the original TLC driver model definition,
> one has to ask : "who copy who" ?
> Chris
> ===============================================================
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