[SI-LIST] Re: HSDD: Re: SI Position Open READ THIS!!!!
- From: "Dr. John L. Prince" <prince@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: freeman@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:17:19 -0700
>Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:06:52 -0700
>To: freeman@xxxxxxxxxxx
>From: "Dr. John L. Prince" <prince@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: HSDD: Re: SI Position Open READ THIS!!!!
>Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>In-Reply-To: <3C56F2FD.EA60FAC0@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>References: <CHEOLBOCMHBMGAAAIMKOOEHADCAA.howiej@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
>I was a graduate teaching assistant in 1968 when our department head told
the faculty about the developing pressure from ABET (the accreditation
folks) to reduce the hours for graduation from 145 to something much less.
He said at that time that the changes would occur whether we liked it or
not. That has evolved over the years to around 128-130 hours here at UA,
including some "touchy-feely" courses.
>
>The pressure came from industry through ABET. Industry now reaps what it
sowed.
>
>I can think of no academic who would be inclined to voluntarily reduce the
number of engineering hours required for a degree; quite the opposite is
the case. If there are any complaints from "industry" about academics
weakening programs in this way, they are off base and come from people who
are too young or are simply unaware of what happened and where the evil
came from. As Pogo said (I speak as an engineer who has 10 years industry
experience as well as 23 years of academic and consulting experience), "We
have met the enemy and he is us" !!!!
>
>John Prince
>
>At 11:07 AM 01/29/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>Dear Howard,
>> The situation at Rice is not unlike the situation at Purdue while I
>>was attending. When I started as a freshman engineering student, the
>>requirement for graduation was for 141 semester hours of education.
>>Before I could graduate, the pressure of open universities, drop in
>>engineering education( it was deemed by most undergraduates as too hard.
>>Also, the layoffs in 1969 due to the implosion of the aerospace industry
>>and the visual in the newspaper of a Phd. in Aeronautical engineering
>>sweeping the floor of a gas station as a part-time attendant as a
>>reminder of the corporate rewards for such hard work), and the general
>>attitude in the U.S. that we needed the war on poverty and the vietnam
>>war at the same time caused Purdue to streamline the education and
>>reduce the number of hours required to 120 hours. This was done at the
>>expense of the engineering courses and not the required humanities. I am
>>all for both(I amassed 157 semester hours in the 8 semesters and a
>>summer session that I attended) but to weaken the programs was probably
>>a mistake.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Jim Freeman
>>
>>
>>Howard Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Jim Freeman,
>>>
>>> I agree with you whole-heartedly that EE education is being shunted
>>> aside
>>> in favor of computer science at many universities. It's unfortunately,
>>> really, that
>>> educators have to make such decisions, but understandable of course.
>>> Out of
>>> the torrent of papers, conferences, and new information available each
>>> year they
>>> have to choose what is worthy of presentation to new students, and
>>> what has become
>>> "passe" or is available otherwise as "on-the-job" training. For
>>> example, at my
>>> alma matter Rice University I've heard rumors that the EE curriculum
>>> may soon be
>>> dropped or scaled back. From my perspective, eliminating subjects like
>>> transmission
>>> lines, electromagnetic fields, (low voltage) power distribution and
>>> interconnect
>>> modeling would be a mistake, but then I don't get to make such
>>> decisions (and I'm
>>> glad I don't have to).
>>>
>>> Clayton Paul has done a lot to popularize the teaching of EMC
>>> in colleges and universities with his textbook "Introduction to
>>> Electromagnetic
>>> Compatibility" and his persistent efforts within the IEEE to discuss
>>> EE
>>> curriculum. At this point I'm wondering who will step forward to do
>>> the same job
>>> for the field of signal integrity.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Dr. Howard Johnson, Signal Consulting Inc.,
>>> tel 509-997-0505, howiej@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> http:\\signalintegrity.com -- High-Speed Digital Design articles,
>>> books, tools, and seminars
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jim Freeman
>>> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:17 PM
>>> To: ventham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; owsley@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: SI Position Open READ THIS!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> Howard's article compares vintage with EMC. As one of the vintage
>>> engineers,
>>> I think the problem is really in the conversion from an emphasis on
>>> the
>>> ELECTRICAL in E.E. to an emphasis on computers in electrical
>>> engineering. Most
>>> engineers who graduate today think of electrons as an anachronism, if
>>> they think
>>> of them at all.
>>> As us vintage engineers remember, we were educated when the
>>> transition was
>>> occurring from motors, relays and tubes to a solid-state emphasis. We
>>> have
>>> performed our engineering job so well that those who practice
>>> engineering today
>>> don't worry about solid-state. it just works. We are generally in the
>>> same boat
>>> with today's engineers in regard to motor theory because it was being
>>> de-emphasized in our education.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Jim Freeman
>>>
>>> Mike Ventham wrote:
>>>
>>> > Greetings All,
>>> >
>>> > I think Howard has now recognized vintage as being related to bald.
>>> >
>>> > See "NOT ALL EMC ENGINEERS ARE BALD"
>>> > Don't believe every myth you hear.
>>> > http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1729.9.1940859194
>>> >
>>> > At 02:28 19/06/01, Bill Owsley wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >At 11:45 PM 06/18/2001 +0100, Mike Ventham wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > >The same seems to go for EMC engineers. I have met many who are
>>> 'old'
>>> > >
>>> > >the politically correct now use 'vintage' instead of 'old' - like
>>> in wine...
>>> > >;>
>>> > >
>>> > > >analog engineers!
>>> > > >
>>> > > >At 23:19 18/06/01, you wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >i kinda get the feeling that its the other way around... a
>>> true SI
>>> > > guy is a
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >microwave guy who's turned digital. ;-) all the digital guys
>>> that
>>> > > pick up
>>> > > > >on a little microwave are just SI wannabe's.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >miker
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >p.s. i'm a digital guy and the above is said tongue-in-cheek.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >(snipped for bandwidth)
>>> > >
>>> > >----------------------------
>>> > >Bill Owsley, owsley@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > >919) 392-8341
>>> > >
>>> > >Compliance Engineer
>>> > >Cisco Systems
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > ________________________________________________________________
>>> > | Mike Ventham - Vice-President Engineering, |
>>> > | Quantic EMC Inc. Headquarters |
>>> > | Croft House, Chilcompton, 191 Lombard Ave., Winnipeg,|
>>> > | Somerset, UK, BA3 4JA Manitoba, Canada R3B 0X1 |
>>> > | Tel: 44 (0)1761 232191 Tel: (204) 942 4000 |
>>> > | Fax: 44 (0)7974 141685 Fax: (204) 957 1158 |
>>> > | Mobile: 44 (0)7971 553260 |
>>> > | Email: ventham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.quantic-emc.com |
>>> >
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>>
>>
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>>
John L. Prince, PhD
Professor
Director,Center for Electronic Packaging Research
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
University of Arizona
1230 E. Speedway
Tucson, AZ 85721-0104
prince@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
520-621-6187
520-621-2999(FAX)
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