[SI-LIST] Re: HSDD: Re: SI Position Open READ THIS!!!!
- From: Jim Freeman <freeman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: sainath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:04:44 -0800
Hi Sainath,
The fact that it presupposes some rules of thumb that are simply derived
and tries to minimize the complexity of VLSI design. I know many engineers who
have cited and used the rules of thumb faithfully and had to say whoops!! later
on. The vintage engineers usually understand the underlying concepts such as
miller capacitance, device ratios and layout that prevent obvious mistakes.
Thanks
Jim Freeman
Sainath Nimmagadda wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> You've made some statement about Carver & Mead approach. What about their
> approach that makes you so unhappy?
>
> Sainath
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jim Freeman
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:10 PM
> To: Kai, Francis
> Cc: Howard Johnson; ventham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
> owsley@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HSDD: Re: SI Position Open READ THIS!!!!
>
> Hi Francis,
> I think you missed the point. I am saying that basic understanding of
> how
> an electron performs and how a magnetic field is developed are being taught
> insufficiently. This may be happening for several reasons. A basic distaste
> for
> the material by the students and the faculty, lack of understanding about
> these
> concepts by the people who are supposed to teach them, lack of ability to
> communicate the concepts by those who are supposed to teach them, or a
> feeling
> that they are somehow irrelavent in the modern computing age of today.
> As for the VLSI courses that are taught today in undergraduate studies,
> most of them rely on a Carver & Mead approach that to my mind is not only
> useless but damaging to understanding of VLSI.
>
> Thanks
> Jim Freeman
>
> "Kai, Francis" wrote:
>
> > Dear SI gurus:
> >
> > Although all of you are great experts on SI and EMI, please allow me
> > to say one word or two since I had been a student and an Assistant
> > Professor in Electrical and Computer Engineering.
> >
> > I think the undergraduate education should be based on fundamentals
> > and the graduate education should be focused on a special field. I do not
> > think we need to teach "signal integrity" or "EMI" in undergraduate
> studies.
> > Basic circuit theory, electronics (digital and analog circuit design),
> solid
> > state devices, electromagnetics and electromagnetic waves theory, and VLSI
> > circuit design are the key courses. If the instructor (professor or
> > lecturer)
> > can pass these concepts clearly to the students in the above fields, then
> we
> >
> > will have good engineers. You don't need to know how to calculate skews,
> > crosstalks, PEECs, and other SI concepts in undergraduate studies because
> > if you have excellent background in circuit theory, EM&EMW, you can easily
> > pick up these concepts.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Francis Kai
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Freeman [mailto:freeman@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:08 AM
> > To: Howard Johnson
> > Cc: ventham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; owsley@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HSDD: Re: SI Position Open READ THIS!!!!
> >
> > Dear Howard,
> > The situation at Rice is not unlike the situation at Purdue while I
> > was attending. When I started as a freshman engineering student, the
> > requirement for graduation was for 141 semester hours of education.
> > Before I could graduate, the pressure of open universities, drop in
> > engineering education( it was deemed by most undergraduates as too hard.
> > Also, the layoffs in 1969 due to the implosion of the aerospace industry
> > and the visual in the newspaper of a Phd. in Aeronautical engineering
> > sweeping the floor of a gas station as a part-time attendant as a
> > reminder of the corporate rewards for such hard work), and the general
> > attitude in the U.S. that we needed the war on poverty and the vietnam
> > war at the same time caused Purdue to streamline the education and
> > reduce the number of hours required to 120 hours. This was done at the
> > expense of the engineering courses and not the required humanities. I am
> > all for both(I amassed 157 semester hours in the 8 semesters and a
> > summer session that I attended) but to weaken the programs was probably
> > a mistake.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jim Freeman
> >
> > Howard Johnson wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Jim Freeman,
> > >
> > > I agree with you whole-heartedly that EE education is being shunted
> > > aside
> > > in favor of computer science at many universities. It's unfortunately,
> > > really, that
> > > educators have to make such decisions, but understandable of course.
> > > Out of
> > > the torrent of papers, conferences, and new information available each
> > > year they
> > > have to choose what is worthy of presentation to new students, and
> > > what has become
> > > "passe" or is available otherwise as "on-the-job" training. For
> > > example, at my
> > > alma matter Rice University I've heard rumors that the EE curriculum
> > > may soon be
> > > dropped or scaled back. From my perspective, eliminating subjects like
> > > transmission
> > > lines, electromagnetic fields, (low voltage) power distribution and
> > > interconnect
> > > modeling would be a mistake, but then I don't get to make such
> > > decisions (and I'm
> > > glad I don't have to).
> > >
> > > Clayton Paul has done a lot to popularize the teaching of EMC
> > > in colleges and universities with his textbook "Introduction to
> > > Electromagnetic
> > > Compatibility" and his persistent efforts within the IEEE to discuss
> > > EE
> > > curriculum. At this point I'm wondering who will step forward to do
> > > the same job
> > > for the field of signal integrity.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Dr. Howard Johnson, Signal Consulting Inc.,
> > > tel 509-997-0505, howiej@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http:\\signalintegrity.com -- High-Speed Digital Design articles,
> > > books, tools, and seminars
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jim Freeman
> > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:17 PM
> > > To: ventham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; owsley@xxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: SI Position Open READ THIS!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > > Howard's article compares vintage with EMC. As one of the vintage
> > > engineers,
> > > I think the problem is really in the conversion from an emphasis on
> > > the
> > > ELECTRICAL in E.E. to an emphasis on computers in electrical
> > > engineering. Most
> > > engineers who graduate today think of electrons as an anachronism, if
> > > they think
> > > of them at all.
> > > As us vintage engineers remember, we were educated when the
> > > transition was
> > > occurring from motors, relays and tubes to a solid-state emphasis. We
> > > have
> > > performed our engineering job so well that those who practice
> > > engineering today
> > > don't worry about solid-state. it just works. We are generally in the
> > > same boat
> > > with today's engineers in regard to motor theory because it was being
> > > de-emphasized in our education.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Jim Freeman
> > >
> > > Mike Ventham wrote:
> > >
> > > > Greetings All,
> > > >
> > > > I think Howard has now recognized vintage as being related to bald.
> > > >
> > > > See "NOT ALL EMC ENGINEERS ARE BALD"
> > > > Don't believe every myth you hear.
> > > > http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1729.9.1940859194
> > > >
> > > > At 02:28 19/06/01, Bill Owsley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >At 11:45 PM 06/18/2001 +0100, Mike Ventham wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >The same seems to go for EMC engineers. I have met many who are
> > > 'old'
> > > > >
> > > > >the politically correct now use 'vintage' instead of 'old' - like
> > > in wine...
> > > > >;>
> > > > >
> > > > > >analog engineers!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >At 23:19 18/06/01, you wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >i kinda get the feeling that its the other way around... a
> > > true SI
> > > > > guy is a
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >microwave guy who's turned digital. ;-) all the digital guys
> > > that
> > > > > pick up
> > > > > > >on a little microwave are just SI wannabe's.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >miker
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >p.s. i'm a digital guy and the above is said tongue-in-cheek.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >(snipped for bandwidth)
> > > > >
> > > > >----------------------------
> > > > >Bill Owsley, owsley@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > >919) 392-8341
> > > > >
> > > > >Compliance Engineer
> > > > >Cisco Systems
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > > | Mike Ventham - Vice-President Engineering, |
> > > > | Quantic EMC Inc. Headquarters |
> > > > | Croft House, Chilcompton, 191 Lombard Ave., Winnipeg,|
> > > > | Somerset, UK, BA3 4JA Manitoba, Canada R3B 0X1 |
> > > > | Tel: 44 (0)1761 232191 Tel: (204) 942 4000 |
> > > > | Fax: 44 (0)7974 141685 Fax: (204) 957 1158 |
> > > > | Mobile: 44 (0)7971 553260 |
> > > > | Email: ventham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.quantic-emc.com |
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe from si-list:
> > > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject
> > > field
> > > >
> > > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> > > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
> > > >
> > > > For help:
> > > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
> > > >
> > > > List archives are viewable at:
> > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> > > > or at our remote archives:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> > > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> > > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from si-list:
> > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
> > >
> > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
> > >
> > > For help:
> > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
> > >
> > > List archives are viewable at:
> > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> > > or at our remote archives:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from si-list:
> > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
> >
> > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
> >
> > For help:
> > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
> >
> > List archives are viewable at:
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> > or at our remote archives:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
> List archives are viewable at:
> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> or at our remote archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
> List archives are viewable at:
> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> or at our remote archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
Other related posts:
