[SI-LIST] Re: HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Boar d Level Simulation < 400 MT/s???

Maybe I'll add something here too.  In our SI work, we use simulators like
SpectraQuest (or whatever its called this week), Hspice, Pspice, Berkeley
spice, and  Eagleware/Agilent; field solvers from Ansoft, CST,  Flowmerics,
and a couple other vendors; and model extraction  and simulation software
from TDA Systems/Tektronix, and Agilent; and some stuff of our own creation.
And I'm probably forgetting a few.

And to be blunt: they all suck! 

Every single package has problems and issues that need to be discovered,
understood, and worked around. And each time there is a new rev, we have to
go through it all again. 

But we accept the fact that we need to use these tools, warts and all,
because they are the best tools currently available to us. Hopefully, six
months from now, they'll all be little bit better.   

Its very easy to throw stones at the negatives inherent to all packages.
But, at the end of the day, the benefits outweigh the frustrations, or we
wouldn't use them at all.

Julian Ferry
High Speed Engineering Manager
Samtec, Inc


-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff (twesterh)
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:15 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board Level
Simulation < 400 MT/s???

Mystery Guy, I'm afraid you've missed the point.  All tools have bugs
and issues - it's just a matter of degree.  We're talking about a
relatively small market that is using some very complex tools.  Throw in
the fact that the problem is constantly getting more complex (speeds go
up), and it should be common sense that bugs and problems are going to
be an ongoing issue.  As others have said, using these tools requires
experience and good judgment.

We've seen issues that could be reproduced, and issues that couldn't be
reproduced - with any tool you care to name.

If you're looking for meaningful input, I suggest you name the
application you're designing to (for instance, DDR2-SDRAM/533 MT/s) -
then ask people whether they've been successful with a particular tool
and if they know of any "gotchas" should be on the lookout for.

Asking "has anyone heard of problems" via an anonymous request just has
a cloak-and-dagger feel to it.  This is engineering, not drama.

Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it,

Todd. =20


Todd Westerhoff
High Speed Design Group Manager
Cisco Systems
1414 Massachusetts Ave - Boxboro, MA - 01719 email:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx
ph: 978-936-2149
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=20
"Always do right.
 This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
=20
- Mark Twain


-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of mystery guy
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:36 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board
Level Simulation < 400 MT/s???

Please forgive the anonymous aspect of the request.  I do not wish to
steer the result by way of company name/individual's name, nor do I wish
to embarrass the originator of the request.  This is not an attempt to
tarnish any tool maker's reputation, and my apologies if the request
comes across that way.  There is no intended assertion that a problem
exists by way of the request itself.
  =20
  I am asking the SI experts of the world if anyone has experienced
issues with SQ that would lead to concern about the results.  It may be
the case that the answer is no and experts have been using this tool
quite extensively, in which case a strong assertion to this effect would
be in order.  I am not saying that either answer is right or wrong, but
the request was intended to illicit candid opinions from the experts.
  =20
  If you have seen an issue that can be reproduced/confirmed, please
feel free to pass along directly if you wish to remain anonymous about
this topic.
  =20
  Thanks for your patience.
 =20
Ray Anderson <ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
   =20
The message posted anonymously to the list earlier today=20
  =20
  (deleted)
Regards,

-Ray Anderson
(si-list admin)




-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of mystery guy
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:06 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] HELP!! SpecctraQuest is GOOD/BAD Tool for Board Level
Simulation < 400 MT/s???

Gurus,
=3D20
I recently heard a fellow say that SpecctraQuest is not an acceptable
tool for SI simulation ...........=3D20

(remainder deleted)

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