Hi All, I am a student and am interested in learning SI . I was wondering if someone could please suggest me some introductory books on SI. Thanks Shankar si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ybSovB/hP.FAA/3jkFAA/bGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: si-list-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 10 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Sacrificial ground: Is it useful? From: MikonCons@xxxxxxx 2. testing From: "A.Z." 3. Field-solver From: "elecqs" 4. Re: Sacrificial ground: Is it useful? From: MikonCons@xxxxxxx 5. About the limit of minimum length From: "Fu, Greg (¸¶?V²Ù IES)" 6. Re: What are the differencs between W, T and U-element of a tranmission line model? From: Sudheer B S 7. Re: What are the differencs between W, T and U-element of a tranmission line model? From: "Jack" 8. Re: Sacrificial ground: Is it useful? From: Geoff Stokes 9. Re: How to build a variable resistor in HSPICE From: Antonio Girardi 10. Re: What are the differences between W, T and U-ele ment of a transmission line model? From: "Clewell, Craig" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:00:28 EST From: MikonCons@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: Sacrificial ground: Is it useful? John: You were wondering about the source for chassis-grounded guard traces around PCBs. I believe I'm the guilty party. Back in 1989, I devised a method to protect board devices from ESD while reducing radiated emissions as well. I generated the concept with the following guidelines. Place a ring around the PCB periphery of 50 (or more) mils width on EVERY layer. The outter layers should have a soldermask setback (i.e.,to expose the conductor). Use stagger-spaced vias to connect all rings, forming a low inductance conducting strap around the PCB periphery. The ring structure should be connected to the primary signal reference entry point (generally at a connector interface). The guard ring concept has multiple purposes: a) Providing a field termination point for radiated emissions originating on the PCB. b) Providing a sacrificial/preferred ESD strike area with a current distribution mechanism. Item (a) is most beneficial where common-mode excitation exists on the planes (e.g., in the case of planar resonances) of the PCB, but also serves to intercept signals from the many inadvertent loop and monopole antennas that are unavoidably formed in most any PCB layout. The ring provides the preferred path back to the local ground reference for the PCB. Hence, the ring provides a local termination and return path for any fields emanating from the PCB circuits and power/ground plane edges. Item (b), by virtue of an exposed conductive structure, presents the most likely strike area for any ESD buildup. The low inductance of the parallelled layer structure minimizes potential differences around the PCB. If a strike occurs, the charge is quickly distributed around the PCB and is fed into the PCB interior via the primary reference ground connection and appears as common-mode voltage to the PCB circuits. Theh result is minimal disturbance (under the circumstances ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:09:55 -0800 From: "A.Z." Subject: testing test ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:20:07 -0800 From: "elecqs" Subject: Field-solver Hi, up to what frequency has the internal field-solver of Hspice been correlated? Rgds, ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:28:55 EST From: MikonCons@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: Sacrificial ground: Is it useful? Darn, sorry guys, but I lost over half of my comments to John on the last E-mail. I didn't save it, so here's a brief summary of what "disappeared." The result is minimal disturbance (under the circumstances) because of the use of the low inductance current path and the lowest current density entry point to the internal circuits of the PCB. RE: Capacitors around the periphery I recommended PROVISIONS for "spoiler" capacitors be spaced around the ring at varying intervals. Because the ring forms a loop antenna that is resonant at a low to intermediate frequency, a susceptibility coul be encountered, depending on the using environment. If so, addition of either capacitors or low value damping resistors could be used to "spoil" or significantly reduce the susceptibility. These mounting provisions are not recommended to be populated unless a problem is encountered. The guard ring approach solved many ESD problems, particularly on portable designs. I presented the concept in lectures across the US and Europe, as well as incorporating custom variations in many designs over the years. Perhaps many designers now use the concept without understanding whether they have need for it in their particular design. I had considerably more to comment, but don't have any more time now. Have fun, Mike Michael L. Conn Owner/Principal Consultant Mikon Consulting Cell: 408-821-9843 *** Serving Your Needs with Technical Excellence *** ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:09:17 +0800 From: "Fu, Greg (¸¶?V²Ù IES)" Subject: About the limit of minimum length Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, guru: I am a novice on this mail list, I have a simple problem. The model is described: =20 The design has a rule, which is the length of driver to via must be = among minimum length and maximum length. But the problem is why it has a = minimum length? We know, when the length is longer, crosstalk maybe = increases much. Why ? Anyone who can explain in examples will be greatly = appreciated. Thanks in advance. =20 Best regards, Greg Mailto:fu.greg@xxxxxxxxxxxx=20 Inventec(ShangHai) Co.,Ltd. =20 =20 -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Ecartis -- -- Type: image/gif -- File: image001.gif -- Desc: image001.gif ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:11:44 -0500 From: Sudheer B S Subject: Re: What are the differencs between W, T and U-element of a tranmission line model? T : Lossless transmission line model , single signal only Can be used for reflection analysis when lengths are less than the critical length U: Lossy Transmission lines allows upto few lines i am not sure of this no probably 4 W : Lossy Transmission line , Fast , accurate and robust than U element and you can simulate any no of signals Regards SUDHEER lee yang wrote: >Hi all, >Any explaination or material on these is much appreciated! >-LY > > > > >>From: "lee yang" >>Reply-To: changly_80@xxxxxxxxxxx >>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>Subject: [SI-LIST] What are the differencs between W, T and U-element of a >>tranmission line model? >>Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:05:41 +0000 >> >>Hi, >> >>Could some one explains that what are the differences between W, T and >>U-element of a transmission line model? How do i know which type of >>transmission line model should I use in my simulation? >>Thanks. >> >>Regards, >>LY >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Are you in love? Find a date on MSN Personals http://match.msn.com.my/ >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>To unsubscribe from si-list: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field >> >>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list >> >>For help: >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field >> >>List archives are viewable at: >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >>or at our remote archives: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >> >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Are you in love? Find a date on MSN Personals http://match.msn.com.my/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from si-list: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >For help: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:25:55 -0800 From: "Jack" Subject: Re: What are the differencs between W, T and U-element of a tranmission line model? All, Could someone refresh my memory: Field solver like Maxwell 2D output into a file that Hspice references for the physical description of the stackup and transmission lines??? Then call this file as a lib that you can denote its length?? thanks, jack ~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sudheer B S" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 7:11 AM Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: What are the differencs between W, T and U-element of a tranmission line model? > T : Lossless transmission line model , single signal only > Can be used for reflection analysis when lengths are less than > the critical length > U: Lossy Transmission lines allows upto few lines i am not sure of > this no > probably 4 > W : Lossy Transmission line , Fast , accurate and robust than U > element and you can simulate > any no of signals > > > > Regards > SUDHEER > > lee yang wrote: > > >Hi all, > >Any explaination or material on these is much appreciated! > >-LY > > > > > > > > > >>From: "lee yang" > >>Reply-To: changly_80@xxxxxxxxxxx > >>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>Subject: [SI-LIST] What are the differencs between W, T and U-element of a > >>tranmission line model? > >>Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:05:41 +0000 > >> > >>Hi, > >> > >>Could some one explains that what are the differences between W, T and > >>U-element of a transmission line model? How do i know which type of > >>transmission line model should I use in my simulation? > >>Thanks. > >> > >>Regards, > >>LY > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>Are you in love? Find a date on MSN Personals http://match.msn.com.my/ > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>To unsubscribe from si-list: > >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >> > >>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > >>//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >> > >>For help: > >>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >> > >>List archives are viewable at: > >> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > >>or at our remote archives: > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > >>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > >> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Are you in love? Find a date on MSN Personals http://match.msn.com.my/ > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > >To unsubscribe from si-list: > >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > > >For help: > >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > >List archives are viewable at: > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > >or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:38:03 -0000 From: Geoff Stokes Subject: Re: Sacrificial ground: Is it useful? Hi John, Some years ago, equipment in rack assemblies (sonar for example) used to have a "frame continuity" network. This network was isolated from the rest of the system except that it was joined at one point to the power supply ground. All the power returns of each electronic assembly where separately returned to a star-point ground terminal near the power supply unit. At that time, there was very little digital processing - it was slow - and high frequencies greater than 1MHz or so where not really of any concern. The idea was that a ground loop would be set up if the units were grounded at more than one point. Any such ground loop would be susceptible to inductive mains frequency coupling, and with lots of unscreened analog circuits in the system, this could easily be demonstrated if a unit was wrongly wired! I think maybe that kind of thinking has now changed and been replaced by a requirement for tight bonding between well-shielded units. Where necessary, isolated power supplies and differential signal interconnects or optical coupling are used for sensitive situations. Could it be that for lower frequencies, the Frame Continuity principle is still useful? However it seems to me that the decoupling caps you mention around the edges of the boards could possibly present a problem, coupling noise in at mid to low frequencies. Cheers Geoff > -----Original Message----- > From: John Coupland [mailto:coupswork@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: 24 October 2003 17:59 > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] Sacrificial ground: Is it useful? > > > Hi gurus, > We've traditionally used a "sacrificial ground" (a > trace around the edge of PCBs) which is connected to > chassis ground (when the board is installed). We also > distribute some caps (like 0.1uF) from this trace to > signal ground around the edge of the PCB. === message truncated === --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu