[SI-LIST] Re: Dielectric nature of Substrate

Ray,
   Having just received Ken's posting I was in the process of replying 
to Ken and cc you,  but not the list, or we would be diverting the 
thread. However, the intention of my message was to point out the 
difficulties for those who must research in a language not their own, 
you must know that most technical papers are in English.  It was not 
intended to admonish you, although the tone of  your first sentence was 
what prompted my posting.
   My point is that a persons ability to comprehend (not to be confused 
with intelligence) should be considered when we answer their questions. 
In this instance the phrasing of  Manish's posting indicated that 
English was not his mother tongue, and in my mind should have told you 
the same thing. I repeat, we English speakers can quickly scan for what 
we need in an English document and we don't have a problem of 
vocabulary, but it would be different if we had to do it in say Russian 
or Urdu.  So to comment on your two questions below.
      1. Would the questions have been phrased in a text book, or 
dictated by a tutor, as Manish phrased them? I think not.
      2. He will learn more by doing the research for himself.  Agreed, 
but by aiming him at the right places to look, as he asked, we will be 
helping him to recognize the types of phrases he must scan and skim for 
when researching.
Dave

Ray Anderson wrote:

> Dave-
>
> I hear what you are saying (writing), however can you refute the 
> following:
>
> 1)   The questions posed seem to be directly out of some textbook 
> which were most likely assigned as homework.
> 2)   That he will learn more by doing the research himself than having 
> someone do it for him?
>
> The members of si-list in general (and I think myself in particular) 
> are pretty good about aiding the education of  those learning about SI 
> if appears that they have done their due diligence in researching the 
> topic and need some additional info or help on particular topics. 
> Those who pop up and  present their homework problems verbatim from 
> the book and say: "Show me where the answers are" usually receive a 
> gentle (or sometimes not so gentle) reminder to research the issue 
> themselves and then ask questions if things are still not clear. 
> Without the inquirer expending some effort of his own the request 
> comes across as: "I don't want to waste my time looking for the 
> answer, can someone else do it for me?" BTW, the inquirer's native 
> toungue or ethnicity had nothing to do with my reply. Had you posted 
> the same message you would have received the same answer.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Ray
>
>
> Ken Cantrell wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>> All you've done is admonish Ray(incorrectly, in my opinion), and done
>> nothing to help Manish.  How constructive is that?  Walk the walk, don't
>> just talk the talk.  Manish asked some very general (but complex) 
>> questions.
>> The very nature of the questions asked indicate a lack of research or
>> training on the part of the individual asking them, regardless of 
>> ethnicity.
>>
>> Manish,
>> The questions that you asked are very important, and advanced.  You are
>> obviously not a novice in Engineering, but perhaps somewhat new to this
>> discipline.  I think this is why Ray addressed your question as he 
>> did.  One
>> spoon feeds a beginner, not someone who can stand on their own two feet.
>> You will learn more researching the material yourself.  Here are a 
>> few of
>> the texts that you need to read to fill in some of the blanks:
>>
>> Johnson, "High-Speed Signal Propagation"
>> Hall/Hall/McCall, "High-Speed Digital System Design"
>> Bogatin, "Signal Integrity - Simplified"
>> Young, "Digital Signal Integrity"
>> Any text on Electromagnetics.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Dave Instone
>> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 7:52 AM
>> To: reanderson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Dielectric nature of Substrate
>>
>>
>> Ray,
>>    Your sentiments are good, but please remember that while we whose
>> mother tongue is English can quickly scan documents to see if they are
>> what we need, others whose mother tongue is not English and whose
>> alphabet may not be English have a CONSIDERABLE difficulty doing so. If
>> you don't believe me try reading a few technical documents in a language
>> you are not familiar with.  Manish has asked for pointers to where he
>> should look, we should respect that.
>> Dave
>>
>> Ray Anderson wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Manish Bhakuni wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>> hello ppl up here !!!
>>>> Plz answer my following querries
>>>> 1>What is the effect Dielectric nature of Substrate at
>>>> high frequencies(>10GHz) ? How does it contribute to
>>>> Substrate Noise in Mixed Signal IC's ?
>>>> 2>How and What does Skin effect in Interconnects play
>>>> while contributing to Substrate Noise at high
>>>> frequencies(>10GHz) ?
>>>> plz also pass me links where i can find information
>>>> related to these matters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>
>>> Manish-
>>>
>>> Want the list to do your homework for you? You'll learn more if your
>>> search out the answers yourself.
>>>
>>> -Ray
>>>   
>>
>
>


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