[SI-LIST] Re: DesignCon presentations posted

  • From: Bill Dempsey <cadcocat@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:53:06 -0800 (PST)

<second posting...apologies>
Hi Istvan,
I just read the DesignCon paper on the loss tangent measurement and had a 
question with regards to other possible techniques to measure Df (and similarly 
Dk).
Previously you built a stripline test board for measuring glass weave effect.  
The cool thing about this board was that you launched from "inside" the board 
and minimized the effects of the launch structure.   Couldn't you build a 
similar test board with various copper line widths and measure insertion loss 
on a VNA?  Once you have the insertion loss, couldn't you then subtract out 
the Rdc+Rac component from the overall insertion loss to give you a loss curve 
from which you could derive Df?  Use the various line widths to minimize any 
weave effect.

Using this same board, can you not look at group delay to also measure the Dk 
over frequency?

I know your paper talks about cured and uncured resin variations but in the 
end, isn't it just the cured value we need?  Most tools don't address a 
frequency dependent Df/Dk at this time so what do we do once we get a frequency 
dependent Dk/Df anyway? I'm curious to see how others are addressing this issue 
and how much their lab measurements have been off from simulations.

And I'd like to see some posts from tool vendors who are addressing the 
frequency dependence of these values.

Regards,
Bill
From: istvan Novak <Istvan.Novak@xxxxxxx>
To: SI-List
 <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 10:52:42 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] DesignCon presentations posted


FYI:

For those of you who could not make it to DesignCon, the Oracle-SUN 
presentations are posted at http://www.electrical-integrity.com/

For the three Best Paper Award winner presentations, both the written 
materials and the slides are posted:
â??Introduction and Comparison of an Alternate Methodology for Measuring 
Loss Tangent of PCB Laminatesâ??
â??Additional Trace Losses due to Glass-Weave Periodic Loadingâ??
â??Accuracy Improvements of PDN Impedance Measurements in the Low to 
Middle Frequency Rangeâ??

Also posted are the slides for the panel discussion "Making Sense out of 
Dielectric Loss Numbers, Specifications and Test Methods"

Regards,

Istvan Novak
Oracle-SUN


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