[SI-LIST] Re: Coupled & Lossy Line Model Validation Structure

I thought since Interactive Products SPICE Lossy Models were 
included in the study that Samtec has done, it would be note worthy 
to reference a technical paper on our site that describes how these 
Universal (portable) Lossy SPICE models are created.  The paper 
describes the Lossy Ladder, Lossy Time Domain, and Lossy Frequency 
Domain SPICE models that we produce.

There are two papers, the second is a little more detailed than the 
first. The following link will take you there:  

http://www.interactive-products.com/download.htm#Technical_Paper

The "PCB West" paper under the Presentations header is the more 
detailed, and the "Conductor and Dielectric Losses" is an 
abbreviated version which was published in High Frequency 
Electronics.

Brian Burke
Interactive Products Corporation
Signal Integrity Software Solutions
http://www.interactive-products.com


--- In si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ronald miller <ron@xxxx> wrote:
> Hi julian
> 
> This is wonderful news.
> 
> 1.   There is a lot of confusion about Frequency domain and Time 
domain 
> models of
>        lossy lines and it is great that you have made measurements 
as 
> well as investigated
>        the various simulation models and simulation tools 
including 
> S-Parameters.
> 2.   It is also very encouraging that after all your hard work you 
have 
> elected to share
>        this information with the engineering community.
> 3.     Lastly, it is great that you are trying to open the door to 
an 
> open forum so that others
>        may contribute as well.
> 
> Good work, and I hope that we may at some time collaborate.
> 
> Ron Miller
> 
> Julian Ferry wrote:
> 
> >A few months back, I mentioned that we at Samtec were working on 
a paper
> >about lossy line models.  We're still not completely finished, 
but we have
> >some initial segments ready. They are available on our website 
now.
> > 
> >The first part discusses a reference structure which we have been 
using for
> >a few years for validating models and simulations. We have built 
the
> >structure (which we call the Golden Standard) physically, and 
have used it
> >to investigate and validate new test procedures.  We have found 
the Golden
> >Standard to be so useful, that we thought other SI Engineers 
might be
> >interested as well.  Its not rocket science, but we figured, why 
force
> >people to re-invent the wheel?
> > 
> >The structure is a basic, 2 line micro strip PCB.  Analytical 
solutions
> >exist for several key loss and coupling parameters. Those 
solutions make
> >great markers for comparing with simulated data.  I should also 
note that
> >the Golden Standard demonstrates the infamous "anomalous" 
insertion loss
> >resonance effect that pops up here on the list from time to time.
> > 
> >The first part of the paper gives an overview of the structure. 
It includes
> >data obtained from 2D and 3D solvers, and measured data from 
Agilent's PLTS
> >system and TDA Systems IConnect TDR data post processor.  The 
second part of
> >the paper gives a theoretical discussion on the derivation of the 
analytical
> >solutions.  
> > 
> >We have analyzed the Golden Standard using just about every 
modeling and
> >simulation tool at our disposal. We have built models using 
several 2 D and
> >3 D solvers, used the models to generate spice and S-parameter 
models that
> >we have run in Berkeley SPICE, HSPICE, and PSPICE, we have 
generated models
> >from physical measurements using the Agilent PLTS and TDA Systems 
software,
> >looked at single ended and differential simulations and 
measurements, in the
> >time and frequency domains.  So far we have about 75 pages of 
data. We will
> >eventually be posting this data on our website. We still have 
quite a few
> >simulations to go, and plan to continue to add to the list over 
time.
> > 
> >We are considering opening up the data base so that other users 
can post
> >results there too. We haven't worked out the logistics for that 
yet. But if
> >anyone is interested in something like that, please send an email 
to
> >goldenstandard@xxxx  We could host that on our website, or 
possibly
> >set it up in relation to the SI list archive pages in someway.
> > 
> >In the mean time, the papers are available on our website at:
> > 
> 
>http://www.samtec.com/signal_integrity/golden_standards/goldenstanda
rd_part1
> >.pdf
> 
><http://www.samtec.com/signal_integrity/golden_standards/goldenstand
ard_part
> >1.pdf> 
> > 
> 
>http://www.samtec.com/signal_integrity/golden_standards/goldenstanda
rd_part2
> >.pdf
> 
><http://www.samtec.com/signal_integrity/golden_standards/goldenstand
ard_part
> >2.pdf> 
> > 
> >Or you can go to www.samtec.com <http://www.samtec.com/> , hit 
the "Signal
> >Integrity" Tab, and hit "Golden Standard" from there.
> > 
> >A description of the cross section is there, along with the 
analytical
> >values, so it's a pretty easy process to set up and run some quick
> >validations of your current processes.  We should soon have 
a .dwg cross
> >section file posted there too, which you might be able to paste 
directly
> >into your software.
> > 
> >In addition, we have fabbed some sample boards complete with SMA 
attachment
> >points.  These boards are great for validating test procedures 
and 3D solver
> >solutions.  We will have 40-50 on hand to give away at DesignCon 
next week,
> >so stop by our booth if you're interested. We will also be making 
them
> >available from our website in the next few weeks. If you would 
like to
> >request a kit when they become available, send your contact 
information to
> >goldenstandard@xxxx <mailto:goldenstandard@xxxx> .
> > 
> >Thanks.
> > 
> >Julian Ferry
> >High Speed Engineering Manager
> >Samtec, Inc
> >Mechanicsburg, PA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
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> 
> -- 
> Ronald Miller
> Ghz Data, Signal Integrity Consulting
> 7721 Sunset Ave.
> Newark CA  94560
> tel   510-793-4744
> cell  510-377-9380
> fax   510-742-6686
> www.ghzdata.com
> 
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