[SI-LIST] Re: Best Signal integrity Schools in the USA

  • From: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: Chris Cheng <Chris.Cheng@xxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:36:56 -0400

Amen, Brother Chris!

Scott McMorrow
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
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Chris Cheng wrote:
> I would love to learn how to model a multi-giga bit channel with accuracy 
> down to -50db with a yellow pad.
> I would love to learn how to predict eye openings of heavily loaded DDR2/3 
> buses with multiple loads and multiple branches and driving positions under 
> sso and crosstalk conditions with a yellow pad.
> I would love to learn how to model package interconnects that has imperfect 
> return reference planes with a yellow pad.
> I would love to learn how to deliver power to a multi-giga hertz IC where the 
> power grid and via structure is inherited 2 1/2 and 3D with a yellow pad.
>  
> Are you sure we are talking about the same SI work here ? What does your 
> average EMI engineer knows about the above anyways ?
> ________________________________
>
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of olaney@xxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sun 3/23/2008 2:07 PM
> To: Roy.Leventhal@xxxxxxxx
> Cc: avtaarenator@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Best Signal integrity Schools in the USA
>
>
>
>
> The symptom we see today is that many designers are heavily reliant upon
> really big, expensive software tools to iterate empirical designs into
> something workable.  The same designer, given adequate understanding of
> the underlying principles, can often do 90% of the work on a yellow pad,
> then use software for cleanup and as a sanity check.  When I see SI
> related job descriptions that want work experience with a big list of
> tools, I can readily guess what the company mindset is: substitution of
> tools for competence, and bring in the consultants when they get into
> trouble.
>
> Orin
>
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 14:53:44 -0500 Roy Leventhal <Roy.Leventhal@xxxxxxxx>
> writes:
>   
>> Avtaar,
>>
>> It seems strange to me that in the present/coming years of
>> "microwave
>> digital" that we will be graduating logic designers who will be
>> unable to
>> get their signals across a PCB or keep those signals from
>> interfering with
>> other signals.
>>
>> As things stand today any EMI engineer can tell you that they can
>> make an entire
>> career on fixing prototype SI/EMI problems based on the same
>> half-dozen principles
>> from SI/EMI 101. But, fixing problems in hardware instead of
>> catching them in the
>> virtual design not working smart. Part of the challenge of working
>> smart is applying
>> principles and analysis early in development. The logic designer is
>> best positioned
>> to do that or involve specialist to do it for him or her.
>>
>> First we had the analog age. Then we had the digital age. Now I
>> believe we
>> have the dawning of the age of fast impulse signals driving logic
>> circuits.
>>
>> Meanwhile our schools are, as always, a day late and a dollar short
>> - not
>> necessarily a few individual professors and schools here and there.
>> When I got my
>> BSEE in 1962 my professors were still teaching me about vacuum tubes
>> and had barely
>> started seriously considering teaching transistors. This is despite
>> the fact that
>> industry had developed viable transistors for nearly a decade by
>> then.
>>
>> The IEEE EMC Society is just now making a credible effort to address
>> signal
>> integrity. But, signal integrity has been a driving issue for about
>> 20
>> years now.
>>
>> It is hard to evolve institutionalized cultures (schools,
>> professional societies, and
>> old-line companies) and thinking. They are, after all, in the
>> business of perpetuating
>> their PAST successes and expertise.
>>
>> The advice about UM-R is good. So is the advice about noting which
>> professors and
>> schools are publishing in the latest technologies. Beyond that, stay
>> informed and well
>> ead from industry-oriented trade magazines in those latest
>> technologies on your own.
>> Let me suggest High Frequency, Conformity, and the IEEE EMC Society
>> quarterly newsletter.
>>
>> Lastly, here is a reading list of reference textbooks you can
>> consider perusing:
>>
>>
>> [1] Staff of Agilent Technologies, "Time Domain Reflectometry
>> Theory,"
>> Application Note 1304-2 Hewlett-Packard, 2006.
>>
>> See also:
>>
>> Staff of HP, "Time Domain Reflectometry Theory," Application Note
>> 1304-2
>> Hewlett-Packard, 1988.
>> http://www.lthe.hmg.inpg.fr/medite/5966-4855E.pdf
>>
>> [2] Staff of Agilent, "Manuals: Network Analyzers," Various,
>> down-loadable, Agilent.
>>
>>     
> http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/facet.jspx?c=153424.i.2&to=80039.k.1&;
> cc=US&lc=eng&no=225
>   
>>     
> <http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/facet.jspx?c=153424.i.2&to=80039.k.1
> &cc=US&lc=eng&no=225>
>   
>>
>> [3] C. Antonescu, P.D. Ewing, "EMI/RFI and Power Surge Withstand
>> Guidance for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission."
>>
>> [4] Bruce R. Archambeault, "Shielding of Air Vent Holes," page 102
>> IEEE
>> EMC Society Newsletter, Issue # 215, Fall 2007
>>
>> [5] Bruce R. Archambeault and James L. Drewniak, /PCB Design for
>> Real
>> World EMI Control/, Springer, 2002. ISBN: 1-4020-7130-2
>>
>> [6] Bill Ashley, "Using the Network Analyzer as a Grid Dip
>> Oscillator,"
>> AN 132 AEA Technology, Inc., 2005
>>
>>     
> http://www.aeatechnology.com/usermanuals/AN132%20Using%20the%20Network%20
> Analyzer%20as%20a%20Grid%20Dip%20Oscillator.pdf
>   
>>
>> [7] Eric Bogatin, /Signal Integrity: Simplified/, Prentice Hall,
>> 2004.
>> ISBN: 0-13-066946-6
>>
>> [8] Marty Brown, "Good Physical Layout Takes Black Magic Out of
>> Power
>> Supply Design," EDA Design Line, 2000.
>> http://www.edadesignline.com/showArticle.jhtml?article?ID=192200741
>>
>> [9] Nachyuck Chang, "Theory of Oscilloscope," SNU.
>> http://elpl.snu.ac.kr/csd07/lecturenote/4_dso.pdf
>>
>> [10] Sonia Ben Dhia, Mohamed Ramdani, and Etienne Sicard,
>> /Electromagnetic Compatibility of Integrated Circuits: Techniques
>> for
>> Low Emission and Susceptibility,/ Springer, 2005. ISBN:
>>
>> [11] Mike Eberly and Larry Dunleavy, "Student's Introduction to the
>> HP8714 RF Network Analyzer," 1998
>> http://ee.eng.usf.edu/people/dunleavy/references/reading2.pdf
>>
>> [12] Morris Engelson and Fred Telewski, /Spectrum Analyzer Theory
>> and
>> Applications,/ Artech House, 1974. ISBN-10: 089006024X, ISBN-13:
>> 978-0890060247
>>
>> [13] Y. W. Fowlkes, C. L. Creveling, /Engineering Methods for Robust
>>
>> Product Design/, Addison-Wesley, 1995.
>>
>> [14] Gene Garat, and Staff of IBM, "EMSAT Rules Checker 16 Rules,"
>> Moss
>> Bay EDA and IBM, http://www.mossbayeda.com/EMSAT-Rules.pdf, March
>> 2006.
>>
>> [15] Michael Hiebel, /Fundamentals of Vector Network Analysis/,
>> Rohde &
>> Schwarz, ISBN: 978-3-939837-0
>>
>> [16] Todd Hubing, "Circuit Board Layout to Reduce Noise Emission and
>>
>> Susceptibility," University of Missouri - Rolla, March 2006
>>
>> [17] Multivariate Statistical Analysis: IBM Data Explorer,
>> http://www.research.ibm.com/dx/
>>
>> [18] Staff, ICEM #62014-3, "Electromagnetic Compatibility Part 3
>> Integrated Circuits Electrical Modeling," IEC Standard Proposal/,
>> /2002.
>>
>> [19] Staff, IEC # 61000-4-2, "Electromagnetic Compatibility Part 4-2
>>
>> Testing and Measurement Techniques - Electrostatic Discharge
>> Immunity
>> Test, IEC, 2001. ISBN: 2-8318-5687-6
>>
>> [20] Yoonjae Lee and Raj Mittra, "Electromagnetic Interference
>> Mitigation by Using a Spread-Spectrum Approach," IEEE Transactions
>> on
>> Electromagnetic Compatibility, Vol. 44, No. 2, May 2002.
>>
>> [22] Roy Leventhal and Lynne Green, Semiconductor Modeling: For
>> Simulating Signal, Power and Electromagnetic Integrity, Springer,
>> 2006.
>> ISBN 0-387-24159-0
>>
>> [23] Michel Mardiguian, /Controlling Radiated Emissions by Design,
>> 2^nd
>> Ed.,/ Springer, 2001. ISBN: 0792379780
>>
>> [24] F. D. Martzloff, "Lightening and NEMP Transient Protection with
>>
>> Metal Oxide Varistors," General Electric Technical Information
>> Series
>> 82CRD084, 1982.
>>
>> [25] Staff, Maxim, "A Beginners Guide to Filter Topologies,"
>> Application
>> Note 1762 Maxim, Inc., 2002,
>> http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/1762
>>
>> [26] Staff, Maxim, "EMI/EMC Suppression in Audio/Video Interfaces,"
>> Application Note 3882 Maxim, Inc., 2006,
>> http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3882
>>
>> [27] Scott Mee, Roy Leventhal, Al Wexler and Mike Ventham,
>> "Simulation
>> for the Suppression of PCB Emissions in Digital Telematics Devices,"
>>
>> ITEM Update 2002, p56.
>>
>> [28] Staff of Mentor Graphics, "Design Rule Checks (DRC) for
>> QuietExpert," Mentor Graphics, June 2005
>>
>> [29] Staff of National Instruments, "Noise Figure Measurement with
>> the
>> National Instruments RF Signal Generator and RF Vector Signal
>> Analyzer,"
>> National Instruments, 2006
>> http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3737
>>
>> [30] Henry W. Ott, /Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic
>> Systems,
>> 2^nd Ed./, John Wiley & Sons, 1988. ISBN: 0-471-85068-3
>>
>> [31] Edward Pasahow, /Electronics Pocket Reference, 2^nd Ed/.,
>> McGraw-Hill, 1994. ISBN 0-07-048737-5
>>
>> [32] Clayton R. Paul, Introduction to Electromagnetic Compatibility,
>>
>> John Wiley & Sons, 1992. ISBN: 0-471-54927-4
>>
>> [33] R. A. Pease, /Troubleshooting Analog Circuits/, Newnes, 1991.
>> ISBN:
>> 0750694998
>>
>> [34] R. Perez, Editor, /Handbook of Electromagnetic Compatibility,/
>> Academic Press, Inc. 1995.
>>
>> [35] A. Peterson, S. Ray & R. Mittra, Computational Methods for
>> Electromagnetics, IEEE Press & Oxford University Press, 1998.
>>
>> [36] M. S. Phadke, /Quality Engineering Using Robust Design/,
>> Prentice-Hall, 1989.
>>
>> [37] Muhammad H. Rashid, Power /Electronics: Circuits, Devices and
>> Applications, 2^nd Ed./, Prentice Hall, 1993. ISBN 0-13-678996-X
>>
>> [38] Christoph Rauscher, /Fundamentals of Spectrum Analysis/, Rohde
>> &
>> Schwarz, ISBN: 978-3-939837-00-8
>>
>> [39] Staff, /Environmental Conditions and Test Procedures for
>> Airborne
>> Equipment, DO-160E,/ RTCA, Inc., 2004
>>
>> [41] Madhavan Swaminathan and A. Ege Engin, /Power Integrity
>> Modeling
>> and Design for Semiconductors and Systems,/ Prentice Hall, 2008.
>> ISBN:
>> 0-13-615206-6
>>
>> [42] Staff of Wavecrest, "Oscilloscope - Getting Started," Wavecrest
>>
>> 2001.
>>
>>     
> http://www.wavecrest.com/technical/VISI_6_Getting_Started_Guides/6oscillo
> scope.pdf
>   
>>
>> [44] Wikipedia, "Electronic test equipment"
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_test_equipment
>>
>> [45] Wikipedia, "Insulated-gate bipolar transistor"
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGBT
>>
>> [46] A. B. Williams & F. J. Taylor, /Electronic Filter Design
>> Handbook,
>> 3^rd Ed./, McGraw-Hill, 1995.
>>
>> [47] Staff X2Y, "App Note # 3008, V1, Get the Most from X2Y
>> Capacitors
>> with Proper Attachment Techniques," X2Y Attenuators, LLC. 2/23/2006.
>>
>>
>>
>>     
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>> <#_ftnref1>
>>
>>
>> Good Luck
>>
>> Roy Leventhal
>>
>>
>>
>> Avtaar Singh wrote:
>>     
>>> Gurus:
>>> Can someone please name the Top 5 Signal Integrity schools in the
>>>       
>> US, for
>>     
>>> me?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the kind help!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Avtaar
>>>
>>>
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