[SI-LIST] Re: AW: HFSS or CST

From: Hassan O. Ali <hassan@xxxxxxxx>
To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:15:45 -0400
 
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The original question was simple: 

        >I have the option of buying either HFSS or CST. 
 >Which one should I buy? which is better? and How much is the
approx. cost difference. 
        The answers should have been simple too - all centered around only
those two tools. I answered a similar question about 5 years ago in
this same forum. Some of what I wrote, obviously, maybe out-of-date as
those tools have evolved tremendously over the last 5 years. However,
most of the points still apply. You may wish to double-check with
Ansoft and CST folks on the relevance of the points I discussed.  

        See the link below for my comments: 

        http://www.freelists.org/post/si-list/HFSS-vs-CST,6 [1] 

        Best regards. 

        Hassan.
 On Mon 04/20/09 1:47 PM , "Yuri Tretiakov, PhD" yuric@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
sent:
  Here are a few things about EM tools I worked with in the past: 
 -- IE3D from Zeland is the way to go. Not expensive, support is
excellent and it can handle true 3D structures like bondwires, solder
balls or long (a few 100um long) package or PCB board vias. 
 It is the only one method of moments based tool which can mesh true
3D structures. 
 -- Sonnet has a major issue when setting up this tool everything has
to be on grid.This is due to fact that it uses FFT to solve the method
of moments matrix. I had a very hard time when setting up simple test
cases therefore I gave up with this tool. 
 -- EM tool from AWR is very similar to Sonnet and in fact certain
features look very identical to the Sonnet tool. Therefore I will not
recommend it at this point. 
 -- CST: I gave up with this engine since I couldn't even get correct
simulation results for a simple test case as a GaAs inductor. 
 -- HFSS: not bad and price is less than $100k a license. I know a
couple of excellent support engineers there on whom I can rely on 
 if I have any technical issues when using HFSS. 
 But if you just starting in using EM tools and don't have a big
budget then I would try IE3D first. It used to be about $25K a license
and it does now support multi-threading and therefore it is a very
fast method-of-moments based tool. 
 Regards 
 Yuri 
 -----Original Message----- 
 >From: Mike Heimlich  
 >Sent: Apr 19, 2009 1:45 AM 
 >To: "Havermann, Gert" , si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [4] 
 >Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: AW: HFSS or CST 
 > 
 >You should also consider 3D planar solves as you maybe able to get
your problem solved in less time, with a less-capable computer, and
even save some money. This would especially be the case if you are NOT
doing truly 3D things, like bondwires. Some solvers in this category
(in no particular order)... 
 > 
 >AWR's AXIEM http://web.awrcorp.com/Usa/Products/AXIEM-3D-Planar-EM/
[5] 
 >Sonnet's EM http://www.sonnetsoftware.com/products/sonnet-suites/
[6] 
 >Zeland's IE3D http://www.zeland.com/ [7] 
 > 
 >Regards, 
 >MikeH 
 > 
 > 
 >-----Original Message----- 
 >From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[8]] On Behalf Of Havermann, Gert 
 >Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:22 AM 
 >To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [9] 
 >Subject: [SI-LIST] AW: HFSS or CST 
 > 
 >Besides the compatibility with other tools in your designflow (CAD,
CAM, PCB...) and the applications you are working on (Antennas, PCBs,
Connectors...) you should also look for Hardware comatibility. Each of
the solvers has a different way to run the simulations, and depending
on the hardware one is quicker than the other (CST for instance works
best with a very fast FSB). 
 > 
 >From my point of view both tools give you very accurate results (if
you use them correctly), thus it is speed and compatibility that
should matter. 
 > 
 >Cost is not easy to compare, because both tools come with a
different licensing scheme. You have to choose which features you
need, and very often there are features included in licensing packages
that you might not need. 
 >Hardware acceleration and simultanious computing is something you
should consider. Depending on the type of simulation you are running,
you might want to simulate several ports in parallel, od maybe
simulate different parameters separately. This is also different for
both tools. 
 > 
 >You should make a list about what you need: 
 >-type of simulation 
 >-number of ports 
 >-parameter sweep/optimization, Yes/No? 
 >-do you want to use existing hardware? 
 >-CAD/CAM interface? 
 >-Data export? 
 >. 
 >. 
 >. 
 > 
 >Send the list to the sales reps. and ask for a quote and
testlicense. If you have 3D or CAM data you would like to simulate,
let them do a benchmark on your structures. 
 > 
 >If in the end you still don't know...just pick one, they are both
great. 
 > 
 >BR 
 >Gert 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >Please visit us at the Hannover Messe from April 20 to 24, 2009. 
 >You can find us in hall 11, stand C13. 
 > http://www.hannovermesse.de/ [10] 
 > 

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 >Absender ist HARTING Electronics GmbH & Co. KG; Sitz der
Gesellschaft: Espelkamp; Registergericht: Bad Oeynhausen;
Register-Nr.: HRA 5596; persÃ¶nlich haftende Gesellschafterin: HARTING
Electronics Management GmbH; Sitz der KomplementÃ¤r-GmbH: Espelkamp;
Registergericht der KomplementÃ¤r-GmbH: Bad Oeynhausen; Register-Nr.
der KomplementÃ¤r-GmbH: HRB 8808; GeschÃ¤ftsfÃ¼hrer: Torsten Ratzmann 
 >-----UrsprÃ¼ngliche Nachricht----- 
 > 
 > 
 >Von: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[11]] Im Auftrag von Sanjay G 
 >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. April 2009 12:16 
 >An: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [12] 
 >Betreff: [SI-LIST] HFSS or CST 
 > 
 >Hello 
 >I have the option of buying either HFSS or CST. 
 >Which one should I buy? which is better? and How much is the
approx. cost difference. 
 >Thanks 
 > 
 > 
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[SI-LIST] Re: AW: HFSS or CST

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