[shell-coding] Re: Show of hands

Hello all,
I agree this is an interesting subject, and we should definitely discuss what kind of stuff we could/should collaborate on and in what form the output should be. In other words, the question is what our shells have in common, because apart from the "alternative shell" brand name, they're all quite different beasts with quite different goals. Add to this the fact that many of us haven't tried other shells in years (!) and the picture becomes far from clear. After all, in the year 2007, is there really that much to complain about for any of our shells? If there is, please enlighten me! ;)
Then there's the question of how many of us that really have something valuable to bring to the table and the possible implications thereof. Neil says that siaynoq currently does not contain any unique code (he does not make any predictions for the future), I can't say I've focused much on "common" issues lately (although I will eventually spend some time on improved Vista compatibility of course), but maybe Chris et al have worked their collective asses off on fixes that might also be of interest to the rest of us. Will that currently varying level of commitment to such "common" issues change if we try to combine our efforts? How do we avoid ending up with simplex communication originating from more or less the same group of people as today? Because if we do, then we may be better off with the current situation (and yes this may sound cynical but that's not the intention) where no one expects anything from anyone else, yet everyone can benefit from the spirit of open source just by reading the changes.txt's and source code of others as long as the rule of "credit where credit is due" is followed. In fact, just reading the changes.txt's for other shells can sometimes help or send you off in the right direction; a recent example would be the "Changed TaskbarCreated notification from PostMessage to SendNotifyMessage" for compatibility with Windows Vista fix as outlined by jugg in the latest LSDev release (see http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1427677&SiteID=1 for more details, thanks for the heads-up btw jugg!).
So what kind of areas would be of broad interest? Vista compatibility, check. Related SysTray changes, check. "Install as shell" functionality, check. Multithreading stuff perhaps. Possibly DDE if that still matters today (?). And so on. Anything else? (I'm tired atm so I could only come up with the obvious stuff)
Finally, maybe we should also share our views on "the future of the alternative shell", because with each year that passes by it seems that our combined community shrinks a bit more (or perhaps it's just being diluted?!) Will it still be worth the hard work 1-2-3 years from now? How will *your* shell evolve? How will the rise of Vista, MacOS X 10.5 Leopard and Linux with Compiz Fusion affect us? Is there a place for alternative shells stuck in a 2D world when the regular desktop goes 3D? Is a move to .NET inevitable also for us in the medium/long term if we want to stay competitive? Maybe some new hotshot developer will suddenly appear and blow us all out of the water with mad 3D skillz? ;) 

BR//Karl -> qwilk -> http://xoblite.net/

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Hey All,


I guess I'm aiming for a sort of common repository for code used in
all the extant shells.  Notification area, startup items, DDE, maybe a
VWM.  It should be in the form of a library, with anyone able to join
in its development.  So, the scenario becomes: shell A's dev team
fixes a problem with the notification area under platform X; they then
commit it to the common repo.  Shell B's dev team takes the code,
makes it better, and commits.  Shell A will have it the next time its
dev team integrates the changes.

I'm sure it won't be as easy as that the first time around.  It'll
require possibly extensive changes on the each shell's development
cycle.  That's why I've opened this discussion first, to flesh out
details, instead of starting work on it and then expect others to use
it immediately.

But I think it'll be worth it.  If it'll cut the time we each spend on
worrying out mundane details, enabling us to work more on actually
interesting stuff (like, maybe, Mike's idea of a common theming engine
for skinnable shells), then it'll prove to be worth the effort.

We each steal code from each other (well, maybe not from me; I'm a
leech. :D) and then integrating it into our respective shells, anyway.
 Why not make it easier to collaborate and get better quality code?

What do you guys think?


Sounds like an idea.  Like you mentioned, this has been tried before
with Raptor and WinShellEx, hopefully we will have enough buy in from
the various camps to have a serious go at it this time.

In terms of collaboration, it's been happening unofficially for quite
some time (not so much code stealing only), but I've been working with
BilliBerserker (from the SharpE devs) and ilmcuts (from LiteStep) for
quite some time.  So if there is a concentrated effort it would be
interesting to see what could be accomplished.

I guess the long and short of it is, count me in on whatever the plans become.

Cheers!

Chris



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