[sac-forum] Re: Waivers
- From: Jeff Hopkins <phxjeff@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 23:22:06 -0700
Stan,
You evidently were not getting the earlier discussions on one or more
of the numerous other SAC lists.
It is my understanding the proposal is that if waivers are passed
upon renewal of your membership you will be required to sign a waiver
(general waiver) and if you do not you cannot renewal. Even if you
never attend any star parties.
Now let's say you have decided not to sign you rights away upon
renewal. At renewal time you are not allowed to renew and are now no
longer a SAC member. What does that mean. There is a SAC event that
requires signing of waivers. You attend the event, but do not want to
sign away your rights so you don't sign the event waiver. SAC then
informs you if you do not sign, your membership will be revoked. Gee,
that is already the case. So you attend the event and do not sign any
waiver, enjoy an evening of astronomy while not signing your rights
away. Other members are no so lucky. They have signed the waivers any
rights they have incase of an accident.
Are SAC members really that stupid? Are they really stupid enough to
eagerly sign away any rights they have. These are their rights.
Astronomy is really about as low a rick actively as you can have. To
me waivers make no sense at all. They will hurt the club.
On the other side of the coin Joe signs a waiver saying he holds
Steve harmless incase he trips over Steve's tripod. During the
evening Joe trips over a power cord of Steve's and sues Steve. Joe
wins as the waiver did not mention the power cord. Dumb, yes, but it
points out how futile waivers are.
Do you really want to be part of an organization that requires you to
sign away your rights? What right does the club have to do that?
Some may see me as a trouble maker. I write these messages because I
care about the club and feel strongly these waivers will hurt rather
than help the club. If I didn't care, I'd be indifferent, shut up and
just fade away.
Jeff
At 16:20 -0700 9/7/05, Stan Gorodenski wrote:
While I myself am undecided about the waiver proposal, in all
fairness to the proposal, I should mention that the other society I
belong to, the Lepidopterist's Society, requires everyone to sign a
waiver if they are going on a society sponsored field trip at the
annual meetings. They did this at the annual meeting in Sierra Vista
this August. There was one incident involving someone who refused to
sign a waiver. Here is what happened:
Dear all,
I was also sad that Mr. H* did not do the paperwork for the field trips!
I told him that we needed a signed liability form and he just stated that
he was going to go on a field trip. Period. At that point we did not have
enough leaders and even a group of people who had signed up but had no
leader at all! When we actually met for the field trips only about
two-thirds of those who had signed up actually came. It may have been
possible for H* to go a field trip, but he didn't provide the signed form
and no-one seemed to want to accept responsibility for him. We did the
best we could do under the circumstances.
I have no idea if waivers for star parties will really work, or if
they really protect the Lepidpoterist's Society, but they are doing
it.
Stan
--
Jeff Hopkins
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