[sac-board] Re: Waivers

Hello AJ,

I understand your feelings on this, but I also feel that since much 
has been said about waivers, those issues will surface again. Most 
likely at the meeting.

Questions:
Is the vote regarding the amendment strictly yes or no for the current wording?
Can the wording be changed before a vote?
Will the vote be allowed to determine if there is an amendment?

It seems voting on an amendment may be premature. There is still much 
discussion on whether or not to have waivers this the amendment, not 
just the wording.

I do not want to see waivers so for me the wording is not the issue. 
The issue for me is not to have waivers, period.

I feel if the amendment is passed, there are likely to be additions 
to it. In fact, if there are not additions, then again waivers make 
no sense. Thus all these issue are important and worthy of discussion.

I have yet to see a list of pros for the waivers.

 From the August Newsletter:

"Article VI: Expulsion of Members and Impeachment of Elected Officers
A. A member may be dropped or expelled from the Saguaro Astronomy 
Club for any of
the following reasons:
5. Attending a club event, that requires a signed release, and refusing to sign
the release for the event."

We are back to kicking out members. Or not attending club events. 
Really great! If a member wants to attend an event, but does not want 
to sign his rights away, he or she must either not attend, attend and 
sign his or her rights away or not sign and be dragged before the 
tribunal. Which is worse, being dropped or expelled? If dropped, from 
what height? Does the member have a choice of punishment?

Will there be a formal hearing where the to-be-expelled/dropped 
member is dragged before a tribunal, accused  and then cast out or 
dropped, stripped of his or her membership card, never to proudly 
hold his or her head again and declare "I am a SAC member?" Since 
there is no membership chairman does this mean poor Al must be the ax 
man?

"Article XII: Club Activities
A: A club event is only one occurring on the day, time, and place 
that the Board of Directors formally specifies.
B: Participants at club events are only those who are:
1. members or invited guests and
2. who also have signed the release for the event, when a release is required."

XII A.
Certainly need some clarification.
A club event is only one "what" occurring?

XII B.
What if someone shows up who is not a member or "invited guest?"
Heaven forbid, an ex-member.

What if an invited guest or guest not invited refuses to sign a waiver?
Stone the closest member? Make note and never let that person be a 
member of SAC?

What will you do?

For members who do not want to sign, they will need to avoid these 
events or give up their membership. Is someone who shows up, does not 
sign a waiver yet still does observing okay, just not a participant?

A member or guest who doesn't sign is not considered a participant?
Does that mean they will not be allowed to enjoy their observing?
What is the penalty for not being a participant?

Remember, Astronomy used to be fun. All welcome!
I'm headed to Chinle on Tuesday to give two star parties (Tuesday and 
Wednesday nights) and present six presentations on astronomy to the 
high school. No waivers required!
I'll be back Thursday in time to prepare for Friday.
BTW, don't worry, I'll make sure they understand those activities are 
NOT SAC events.

A suggestion for the next meeting. Print up the amendment, list the 
pros and cons that have been stated (if there are any pros). Hand out 
the copies to the membership before any discussion. This should save 
time and avoid any misunderstanding.

Jeff

At 19:50 -0700 9/9/05, AJ Crayon wrote:
>
>Jeff, the August newsletter is the only newsletter that has the wording for
>the amendments that we have been discussing.  Do not, repeat do not, use any
>prior newsletter as a reference.  Also do not, repeat do not, use any
>statements made in this or any other e-mail list that is contrary to what is
>in the August newsletter.  I have tried, or at least believe I have tried,
>todirect everyone to that document as a reference for discussion as there
>have been a number of false statement about the issue.
>
>Hope this helps,
>aj

-- 
Jeff Hopkins
HPO SOFT
http://www.hposoft.com/Astro/astro.html
Hopkins Phoenix Observatory
7812 West Clayton Drive
  Phoenix, Arizona 85033-2439 U.S.A.
www.hposoft.com

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