[sac-board] Re: [Fwd: Re: SAC insurance]

Certainly my comments were not directed at anyone, so they shouldn't be taken 
personally.

With regards to insurance I was merely saying that I was glad to hear that 
after reviewing the
club's policy, that Kimball found it to be good. 

As to incorporation, my comments were not that not that it leads to or away 
from litigation; just
that I feel it does offer protection to the officers and directors of the club, 
should it find
itself in a lawsuit. Realistically there is nothing that can insulate anyone 
from the potential of
litigation - all one can do is to ensure they are adequately protected. 
Personally, I think the
chances of such a lawsuit involving the club are extremely remote, but if the 
club was being sued
and its assets weren't enough I wouldn't want to be in a position where my 
personal assets could be
in peril (not that I am).

There is an increase in paperwork that goes with incorporation, no doubt. An 
annual report (a 4-page
form) must be filed with the ACC along with a current financial statement and a 
$10 filing fee. Not
filing the report on time can lead to an administrative dissolution of the 
corporation, but they are
pretty lenient with small non-profits. There is no penalty - you just file the 
report late. EVAC has
been delinquent several times over the 10 years it has been incorporated, 
probably due to the almost
annual changing of the officers. I believe the club once went four years 
without filing, then filed
five reports in one year.

I think there is more of an administrative burden involved with the 'waiver 
thingy' than with
incorporation. We might seek a legal opinion on whether the waivers can be 
scanned or if we need to
retain the paper (live signatures), and for how long they need to be retained.

And to add to the discussion, EVAC apparently doesn't feel insurance and 
incorporation offer enough
protection for they have incorporated a liability waiver into the membership 
process. I believe
we'll get a preview of a liability waiver implementation at this year's All-Az 
Star Party. I don't
think the waiver is a bad idea for events like MM or AASP, just that it sure 
seems like a mountain
of work for something which may or may not provide any benefit in the unlikely 
chance it may be
called into play. But, I'll defer to those who will actually be doing the work 
to say whether the
effort is worthwhile. I will surely support whatever our board decides is best 
for SAC.

Anyway, earlier questions prompted me to post my views on incorporation in an 
attempt to help out. I
hope no one misconstrues this as a push on my part for SAC to incorporate. Not 
being an officer or
director myself renders the discussion somewhat academic - outside of my 
obvious concern for doing
what's best for the club.

Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: sac-board-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sac-board-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of AJ Crayon
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:13 PM
To: sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-board] Re: [Fwd: Re: SAC insurance]

Peter, our insurance has never been part of the discussion.  Kimball thought it 
as good as we could
get and recommended we stay with it unless we find something better.  But this 
is another discussion
we'd best stay clear.

Not sure I understand what you are saying, or asking.  Are you implying that 
incorporation can more
easily lead to litigation, or just opposite?

At one time Kimball said there is no way to completely insulate yourself 
against litigation.  There
are ways you can protect yourself in hopes a court will believe you went far 
enough out of your way
to protect everyone.  Especially someone who does something dumb and wants 
someone to pay for his
stupidity.

At that time K. said the easiest way for SAC to go out of its way to protect 
itself, members and
board was the waiver thingy[sic].  Yes it is cumbersome, takes some 
organization, is a headache,
takes precious storage room at someones house (unless we scan them in and put 
on CD-ROM).

Unfortunately I don't remember a lot of what he said about problems with 
incorporation.  My guess is
the annual paperwork that MUST be done in order to keep ourselves, first 
incorporated and second tax
exempt.  This most important duty falls to the treasurer and is most likely to 
be overlooked after
some time.  Once the papers are not filed, then you have to (almost) start the 
process all over
again.  The foregoing is only my rememberance of intense discussions late last 
year.  If anyone has
something to add to or remove from what K. said, please do.

Peter, your comments are appreciated.  They are directed at the topic and not 
myself, therefore I'm
not taking them personally.

Hope this helps,
aj

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