[sac-board] Re: [EVAC] Re: Re: [EVAC Cabinet 2005] All Arizona this or that

All of the bloviating is forcing me to respond, albeit late. This is in 
response to the e-mail from Steven in his response to an earlier one 
from Paul.

I'm going to pass on the anti-SAC statement in order to stay on the 
topic at hand. It shouldn't be possible for SAC to change its name in 
order to accommodate EVAC as you already have a well known name, All 
Arizona Star Party. And a popular star party at that.

The All Arizona Messier Marathon has ALWAYS been called, named and 
titled All Arizona Messier Marathon, being preceded by the year of the 
event.

I don't see any problem with both organizations using the term "All 
Arizona."

Paul wanted me to use a number system; I listened to what he had to say 
and decided against it. As the original coordinator the naming is my 
sole responsibility - bar none. I kept the AAMM name as the more 
technically correct nomenclature. It appears Paul didn't listen to my 
wishes but, instead, decided to name it himself using his editorial 
license. The only SAC tradition is calling it AAMM, nothing else.

SAC is having a Board meeting just before its meeting this Friday and 
the topic can hardly be kept off the agenda.

In regards to Paul’s e-mail

Both Gene Lucas and you have provided a nice chronological review of the 
events, thanks a heap. This is what we need, as I stated yesterday, 
before trying to start a band wagon to see if anyone is interested.

There are some statements that need to be addressed for clarification 
and correction. As stated above, it has always been called All Arizona 
Messier Marathon. No doubt the articles alluded to by Paul have the name 
as he has stated, but he didn't name the author. I doubt, very 
seriously, it is mine. Whose is it? To find out what I have named it, go 
to the seds site at 
http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/marathon/results.html for the Messier 
Marathon Observer's Results. There you will see and read that ALL my 
articles use, All Arizona Messier Marathon.

Finally, Paul this may not get to the EVAC folks as I have just recently 
been taken off their list. Please see to it they get my response.

Thanks and clear skies to all,
aj


Steven Aggas wrote:
Hi Paul, thank you for the detailed info on the origins of AASP. As our 
Board of Directors has approved a plan to start improvements of daytime 
activities, including a shelter, at the All Arizona Star Party, the 
issue with the name was raised and unfortunately misconstrued as 
anti-SAC. It is not, it was only to make sure we had a name that we 
could carry into the future as the star party gained popularity. You 
mention EVAC took over "hosting" the AASP, and the you, as part of SAC, 
had at one point changed the name of the Messier Marathon to the Arizona 
Messier Marathon (AMM), avoiding the name All Arizona MM, is it possible 
for SAC to continue that tradition of calling the MM the AMM and 
consider letting EVAC continue the sole use of the name AASP?

This question might be better addressed by the governing body of SAC:

Is it possible for SAC to revert back to their tradition of calling the 
MM the AMM and consider letting EVAC continue the sole use of the name 
AASP?

I appreciate the SAC governing body's consideration on this. It's not 
that we are erasing any connection with SAC, but growing into our own 
identity, and our use of the AASP name gives us that opportunity.

Regards,

Steven Aggas
President
East Valley Astronomy Club


> From: Paul Dickson <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> CC: evac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [EVAC] Re: [sac-board] Re: [EVAC Cabinet 2005] All Arizona 
> this or that
> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 03:58:49 -0700
>
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:11:48 -0700 (MST), Dean Ketelsen wrote:
>
> > Wrong, Wrong, Wrong...
> >
> > The All Arizona Star Party was in fact started by TAAA back in the 
> mid-80s
> > and was held for at least 4-5 times at their Empire Ranch location 
> SE of
> > Tucson. I think when I was on their board, we even had a rather poorly
> > received lecture series on saturday afternoon. I think to appeal 
> more to
> > the Phoenix folk, we agreed to release it to the more current central
> > location in the early '90s.
>
> Date Location
> October 1983 David Levy's House
> " 1984 Buckeye Hills Recreation Area
> " 1985 Empire Ranch
> " 1986 <no mention in SACNews>
> " 1987 Empire Ranch
> " 1988 "in Tucson" ( according to SACNews :-)
> " 1989 <no mention in SACNews>
> " 1990 <no mention in SACNews> EVAC's site mentioned on calendar
> because that page was for SAC, EVAC,
> and PAS newsletters. (see second PS)
> " 1991 Empire Ranch Combined SAC/EVAC star party at
> EVAC's site. First year of GCSP
> " 1992 Arizona City site (about 21 miles from I-10)
> " 1993 "
> " 1994 new Arizona City site (23-24 miles from I-10)
> through present Currently at 3rd "Arizona City site".
>
> My impression was (as a member of SAC, EVAC, and TAAA during the early
> 90's) that the All Arizona Star Party was "hosted" rather than "owned" by
> an astronomy club. EVAC was willing to accept the task of hosting the
> event.
>
> During this time frame I was an elected board member of EVAC and the
> newsletter editor for SAC, and soon after the transition I was a member
> of TAAA (attending only the meetings and their restaurant get-togethers
> afterward).
>
>
> The latest series of Messier marathons:
>
> Date Location
> March 1993 Arizona City site
> " 1994 new Arizona City site (south from Silverbell Estate signs,
> turn left instead of the current
> right.)
> through present Currently at 3rd "Arizona City site".
>
>
> Year Marathon Title
> 1993 - Arizona Messier Marathon
> 1994 "
> 1995 "
> 1996 - All-Arizona Messier Marathon
> 1997 - Arizona Messier Marathon
> 1998 "
> 1999 "
> 2000 "
> 2001 - All Arizona Messier Marathon
> 2002 "
> 2003 "
> 2004 "
> 2005 "
>
>
> As for both club's using the "All Arizona" moniker: I tried to break A.J.
> of this habit while I was editor of SACNews. Although I did publish the
> 1996 marathon as the All-Arizona, all my subsequent editions of SACNews
> had the "Arizona Messier Marathon" (1997 and 1998). Rick Tejera, the
> SACNews editor since 2000, mostly did not care what AJ called the
> marathon and let him do what he liked.
>
> My reason for not wanting to use the "All Arizona" or "All-Arizona"
> moniker was due to my sensitivity of copyright and trademark issues I
> picked up while publishing SACNews. Although the "All Arizona Star
> Party" is not trademarked, that doesn't mean that the Messier marathon
> should use it too.
>
> I wrote a short article about the history All-Arizona Star Party, but I'm
> not current sure if it was published or when.
>
> -Paul
>
> PS A.J.'s reply to Joe's message did not go to the EVAC mailing list.
> I'm including EVAC on this message. A.J.'s reply is at:
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/sac-board/04-2005/msg00015.html
>
> PS During the 1990 calendar year, SAC, EVAC, and PAS shared a common
> calendar page done by Pieter Burggraaf.
> ________________________________________________________________
>
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