[sac-board] Re: Amendment on the constitution....

I know you are working on the amendment wording, but my feeling is 
there should be no amendment, thus NO wording.

I feel this whole business needs to be thought out better. I hope the 
following will be considered to be presented at the next meeting for 
discussion before any vote.

1. Why the waiver?  I see no valid reason for the waiver.
2. The waiver is unlikely to protect the club or members.
3. The waiver could actually be a cause of problems.
        It might look like we have something to hide.
        It might look like we are trying to get away from providing 
insurance coverage for an injury.
        Someone barred from an event might be very upset, upset 
enough to take legal action.
        Driving hundreds of miles to event to only find out you will 
not be allowed in could be upsetting.

4. Enforcement would be an enormous problem.
        Kicking out members.
        Refusing insurance liability.
        Physically barring someone.
        Shunning people at an event.

5.  It certainly will not be seen as a friendly gesture.

6. Do you think this will attract new members or turn them away?

7. Do you think this will make the club better or worse?

8. Logistics of this would be a nightmare.
        Will you have a well lit table at each event for sign in, 
manned for the entire event?
        Will you require identification for verification of signature?,
        Will you require more information than just signature so 
there is no ambiguity
        as to who signed the waiver? (DL #, address, phone #)
        Will you set up a database with scanned images of all the waivers?
        Will there be a new board member specifically tasked with 
handling this?

I think you will find that it not just me that has a big objection to 
the waiver. I also think some may prefer not to speak up and may just 
fade from the club if this is pursued.

On a more positive note, there are things that can be done to lessen 
the club's liability.

Star parties are not dangerous. They do require activities in very 
dark surroundings. Most people have experience in dark situations. 
Most people will be instinctively careful. Sure someone my stub their 
toe or walk into a cactus, but those incidents will be minor. Unless 
there really is some hazard (e.g., an open mine shaft), there really 
should be no problem and people are probably far safer at the event 
than most anyplace in the city.

Consider adding an amendment that describes a person and situation 
for handling safety at events. Someone responsible for doing a quick 
survey and determining and rectifying potential problems, determining 
ingress and egress problems (more than once I was unsure just were 
the path was out of an event in the middle of the night). Blinking 
red lights are great for indicating things (e.g., the port-a-potty 
location, road out, etc.). Doing this shows the club has considered 
safety and taken reasonable measure to enhance the safety.

I feel there are positive things that can be done to make events 
safer, but waivers are the wrong thing.

Jeff

At 06:44 -0700 8/24/05, Thad Robosson wrote:

>OK, I'll take a crack at this.  I think the key wording is "may" be
>expelled, but I see your
>concern.  It really does sound harsh.  Can we work in something like....
>"Any SAC member who refuses to sign a waiver will be considered to not be
>participating
>in said club activity and is acting on their own behalf seperate and
>independantly from SAC."
>Or am I backtracking here?
>
>Legal advice?  What specifically do you mean to ask AJ?  I'm not poo-pooing
>the idea, just
>that if we are going to consult, we need some very specific questions.  And
>on top of that,
>even after consultation, what extra protection will we have gained?
>
>Let's get it figgered out.....
>
>Thad

-- 
Jeff Hopkins
HPO SOFT
Hopkins Phoenix Observatory
http://www.hposoft.com/Astro/astro.html

                     Hopkins Phoenix Observatory
                       7812 West Clayton Drive
                   Phoenix, Arizona 85033-2439 U.S.A.
                                www.hposoft.com

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