We must be talking about different Zeiss ikon M mount rangefinders. The one I am familiar with came out a few years ago and is possibly worth the price. It has many Bessa features (I have a Bessa) but is more substantial, but the shutter is the same and viewfinder very similar, though the rangefinder base is extended. It feels nicer than the Bessa but not as nice as the Leica. I think it is not bad value, though personally I have mainly bought film cameras second hand. I am sure you will enjoy it if you buy one. Frank ----- Original Message ---- From: CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, 7 November, 2009 13:57:29 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: new Zeiss Ikon- a hollow construct? Talking about Japanese lenses, some day I will comment a well known camera design engineer real opinion about the original Zeiss lenses and Rolleigon Tokina lenses performance for the Rollei 6008 camera, in spite of the price difference. Perhaps I need to explain that from the age of 12 years old I got a real interest about photography and I could compare with photographic eye my father's Leica IIIf (bought brand new) prints and Voss Diax IIb Xenon Schneider 2/50 prints (bought brand new) and from that age I never could understand why the Leica camera was so expensive, I'm not saying it's a bad camera or that I don't like it, in fact I like several of the Leica designs, but I still can not find the causes for the Leica cameras higher cost regarding other cameras with similar or better general quality, and then I tend to look for good cameras with a reasonable price. BTW I shot friends of mine Leica cameras, there also is a very interesting Leica market in my country, I know what I'm talking about. Leica prices don't have a real justification IMO. And now to the Zeiss Ikon RF. 1)It's a new design from the scratch and has nothing to do with Bessa, Cosina or Voigtländer from this point of view.- 2)The telemeter is a new design and new construction, nothing to do with other cameras including Leica.- 3) The coupling mechanism is also new and very exact.- 4) The Copal shutter is the only common element with other Japanese cameras, but even for this case, Zeiss improved the shutter very much as you can read in the Erwin Puts comment.- 5)Lenses are Carl Zeiss lenses and they need to reach the Zeiss specs from any point of view.- 6) BTW it's not a Leica copy except for the M mount, if you see the Erwin Puts comment photographs and the comparison with the Leica M6 and M7 design, the differences are very clear, starting with the round corners for the leica body and the right angle corner for the ZI RF and this is an interesting point: It was Leica that copied several elements from the pre-war Contax II for the M3 and then it's paradoxical today that a camera like the ZI RF that resembles the Contax II could be considered a Leica copy, it's not true. I had no possibility to try the ZI RF, but I think and I hope it could be my new camera for the next year, the body has a price I could afford with some effort and I'll see the lens afterward; I always had a good "instinct" for cameras, and my instinct says this is a very good camera.- Carlos 2009/11/7 FRANK DERNIE <frank.dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: > Have you tried one of these things Carlos???? It feels like a lightweight > Leica copy, despite what this marketing b*llshit says. The innards are > Cosina, like a Bessa or Epson RD1 digital made in the same plant. > OTOH the lenses are great, Zeiss designs made more cheaply, but still well. > Frank > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> > To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Saturday, 7 November, 2009 0:25:28 > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: new Zeiss Ikon- a hollow construct? > > It's a German camera by design, history, appearance and quality > control, Carl Zeiss does a second quality control after to receive > camera and lenses from Japan, where they already were tested with the > Zeiss K8 tester machine; CZ sells them directly. > It looks in general like a modernized and stylized Contax II and like > the Contax II it has the largest rangefinder basis in the market, this > is an excerpt from the CZ website: > > "When designing a new camera from scratch, there are virtually endless > options in shaping it. Not every shape, however, is equally useful, > equally successful, equally beautiful, equally affordable. How should > we at Zeiss select the shape for the new Zeiss Ikon camera and for its > lenses? > > "Well – the new Zeiss Ikon camera should come with a body that, first > of all, enables positive grip with European size male hands. This, to > us, is a very important requirement, something which seems to be much > less important to many makers of consumer digital cameras and cell > phones. > > And the new Zeiss Ikon also should, to a certain extent, resemble the > cameras that made the name Zeiss Ikon famous over many decades in > camera history. It also should be easily differentiated from other > current 35 mm rangefinder cameras, which might be placed next to the > new Zeiss Ikon camera in a dealer’s shop window or on a catalogue or > magazine page." > > Carlos > > --- > Rollei List > > - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org > > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org > > - Online, searchable archives are available at > //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list > > --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list