[rollei_list] Re: new Zeiss Ikon- a hollow construct?

Exactly my point, Austin. For example, in the realm of industrial
design, many Eames chairs are considered artistically of merit, yet
their functional design was flawed and their assembly spotty at times.
There have been functional design changes over the years to these
original designs, under license, with improvements in fabrication as
well, yielding a more functional product. So this is not as
straight-forward as it may seem...


Eric Goldstein

--

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Austin Franklin
<austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Eric,
>
> Even some of the most artistic "things" out there aren't very well
> "crafted".  There certainly is a huge distinction between craftsmanship and
> artisanship in a lot of cases.
>
> To you question, that depends on the item.
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Eric Goldstein
>> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 1:08 PM
>> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: new Zeiss Ikon- a hollow construct?
>>
>>
>> This raises an interesting question. Here is a thought puzzle... Think
>> about a Tiffany lamp. Or a Chihuly piece of art glass. Or a Barcelona
>> Chair. These objects are all executed in quantity by craftsmen under
>> artistic supervision. Some by hand, some by machine.
>> If the design were poor or uninspired but the supervision in execution
>> was superb, is there still a high level of craftsmanship?
>>
>>
>> Eric Goldstein
>>
>> --
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Austin Franklin
>> <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Hi Marc,
>> >
>> > "Craftsmanship" must be considered throughout the entire process.  Just
>> > because something is "hand assembled" doesn't mean it's
>> "better".  If the
>> > design is not done properly up front, film or digital, then the final
>> > product will suffer as well, no matter how much hand involvement is done
>> > during manufacturing.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Austin
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Marc James Small
>> >> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:54 PM
>> >> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: new Zeiss Ikon- a hollow construct?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At 12:44 PM 11/6/2009, Austin Franklin wrote:
>> >>  >Hi Carlos,
>> >>  >
>> >>  >Machined camera parts, body included, made by CNC machines
>> will be far
>> >>  >better in every respect than ones machined by hand.  Even Rollei most
>> >>  >certainly used CNC machines, not humans, to machine the
>> later TLRs.  And
>> >>  >before that, they most certainly did not hand machine every
>> >> body etc. they
>> >>  >used jigs.
>> >>  >
>> >>  >You clearly don't understand the process of making an
>> >> electronic device such
>> >>  >as a high end digital camera.  The sensors themselves are very
>> >> expensive, as
>> >>  >are the ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuits) that
>> >> are in these
>> >>  >digital cameras.  There is FAR FAR FAR more "hand" work and
>> >> craftsmanship
>> >>  >that goes into designing these ASICs, the mechanical design,
>> electronic
>> >>  >packaging, printed circuit boards etc. for these cameras than
>> >> went into ANY
>> >>  >camera EVER made.  I know, as I design digital imaging
>> >> devices...including
>> >>  >the ASICs that go into them.  This is not all done by machine.
>> >> You don't
>> >>  >understand it, so you can't appreciate it.
>> >>
>> >> Austin
>> >>
>> >> I believe that the point was being made on the
>> >> manufacture of digital cameras, not on their
>> >> design.  I agree that the production of both
>> >> today is essentially by CNC machines with a minimum of skinware
>> >> intervention.
>> >>
>> >> Marc
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> msmall@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>> >>
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