Austin: Mechanical cameras have mechanisms, this mechanisms are craftmanships products even if every part is made by a CNC machine, the craftmanship is in the way they were conceived and the way the mechanism works, they don't requiere external energy sources to work. Digital cameras have a "programm",an electronic "brain" requiring an external energy source to work, the digital camera working does not depend directly about the mechanism craftmanship. I also was talking about the way digital cameras and mechanical cameras are assembled, not the way every part is manufactured, I can assure that a mechanical camera assembly requires more human work than a digital camera, I was not talking about the way every minimal part is manufactured, as for old discussions Austin, you started to change the topic axis fron the beginning and then I stop here.- Carlos 2009/11/6 Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>: > Hi Carlos, > > Machined camera parts, body included, made by CNC machines will be far > better in every respect than ones machined by hand. Even Rollei most > certainly used CNC machines, not humans, to machine the later TLRs. And > before that, they most certainly did not hand machine every body etc. they > used jigs. > > You clearly don't understand the process of making an electronic device such > as a high end digital camera. The sensors themselves are very expensive, as > are the ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuits) that are in these > digital cameras. There is FAR FAR FAR more "hand" work and craftsmanship > that goes into designing these ASICs, the mechanical design, electronic > packaging, printed circuit boards etc. for these cameras than went into ANY > camera EVER made. I know, as I design digital imaging devices...including > the ASICs that go into them. This is not all done by machine. You don't > understand it, so you can't appreciate it. > > Regards, > > Austin > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza >> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:25 PM >> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: new Zeiss Ikon- a hollow construct? >> >> >> Frank, there is a very large difference between a digital camera body >> and a high quality mechanical camera body, the digital camera is a >> group of electric circuits made by machines, the high quality >> mechanical camera is direct human work, it requires craftmanship, the >> mechanical camera has something that the digital camera never had, has >> or will have, a human heart. >> BTW, a very fine mechanical camera like the Zeiss Ikon RF that you >> could use for 1000 years costs about U$S 950 at B&H NYC, the true >> scandal is the high end digital cameras price.- >> >> Carlos >> >> >> 2009/11/6 FRANK DERNIE <frank.dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: >> > Hi Jan, >> > All of the high quality large sensor digital cameras are very expensive. >> > Here in England the Leica M9 is less expensive than some and more than >> > others. In this context not out of step with their competition, if too >> > expensive for most customers. The we would all like to have >> less expensive >> > quality but the reality is that it is not available yet. >> > Really the least expensive top quality item, the Sony, is >> probably a loss >> > leader to get market share. >> > What is economic reality is the cost of these high end items by >> Hasselblad, >> > phase one, Canon, Nikon, Leica et al. Most people can not afford to use >> > equipment at this level. >> > What is probably a scandal is the price of film cameras. They >> have so little >> > in them either technology or componentry. I bet the ZI rangefinder has a >> > -much- bigger profit margin than the Leica M8 or M9. >> > All digital equipment has huge depreciation, be it computers, >> home theater >> > or cameras. This is really only a problem if you were >> investing, or have to >> > have the very latest thing. My daughter has my old 6 or 7 >> megapixel Canon >> > dSLR and gets great results, despite it being worth little to >> sell. Would >> > she get better results on prints A4 from the latest 7D? The fact is, not >> > much. >> > Frank Dernie >> > >> > <This is what's happening with the current Leica S2 and M9 >> gear. The prices >> > are completely out of step with economic realities. Right now >> on the Leica >> > Users Group, there is so much ridiculous reasoning to justify buying the >> > $7000 M9 body hat I had to turn the digest off. This, after >> everybody just >> > got over buying the already overpriced M8 - now worth less >> than half its >> > new price!> >> > >> --- >> Rollei List >> >> - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' >> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org >> >> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with >> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org >> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at >> //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list >> >> > --- > Rollei List > > - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org > > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org > > - Online, searchable archives are available at > //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list > > --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list