[rollei_list] Re: new Zeiss Ikon- a hollow construct?

  • From: CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 15:19:53 -0300

Austin:
           Mechanical cameras have mechanisms, this mechanisms are
craftmanships products even if every part is made by a CNC machine,
the craftmanship is in the way they were conceived and the way the
mechanism works, they don't requiere external energy sources to work.
Digital cameras have a "programm",an electronic "brain" requiring an
external energy source to work, the digital camera working does not
depend directly about the mechanism craftmanship.

I also was talking about the way digital cameras and mechanical
cameras are assembled, not the way every part is manufactured, I can
assure that a mechanical camera assembly requires more human work than
a digital camera, I was not talking about the way every minimal part
is manufactured, as for old discussions Austin, you started to change
the topic axis fron the beginning and then I stop here.-

Carlos




2009/11/6 Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> Machined camera parts, body included, made by CNC machines will be far
> better in every respect than ones machined by hand.  Even Rollei most
> certainly used CNC machines, not humans, to machine the later TLRs.  And
> before that, they most certainly did not hand machine every body etc. they
> used jigs.
>
> You clearly don't understand the process of making an electronic device such
> as a high end digital camera.  The sensors themselves are very expensive, as
> are the ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuits) that are in these
> digital cameras.  There is FAR FAR FAR more "hand" work and craftsmanship
> that goes into designing these ASICs, the mechanical design, electronic
> packaging, printed circuit boards etc. for these cameras than went into ANY
> camera EVER made.  I know, as I design digital imaging devices...including
> the ASICs that go into them.  This is not all done by machine.  You don't
> understand it, so you can't appreciate it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
>> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:25 PM
>> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: new Zeiss Ikon- a hollow construct?
>>
>>
>> Frank, there is a very large difference between a digital camera body
>> and a high quality mechanical camera body, the digital camera is a
>> group of electric circuits  made by machines, the high quality
>> mechanical camera is direct human work, it requires craftmanship, the
>> mechanical camera has something that the digital camera never had, has
>> or will have, a human heart.
>> BTW, a very fine mechanical camera like the Zeiss Ikon RF that you
>> could use for 1000 years costs about U$S 950 at B&H NYC, the true
>> scandal is the high end digital cameras price.-
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>> 2009/11/6 FRANK DERNIE <frank.dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>> > Hi Jan,
>> > All of the high quality large sensor digital cameras are very expensive.
>> > Here in England the Leica M9 is less expensive than some and more than
>> > others. In this context not out of step with their competition, if too
>> > expensive for most customers. The we would all like to have
>> less expensive
>> > quality but the reality is that it is not available yet.
>> > Really the least expensive top quality item, the Sony, is
>> probably a loss
>> > leader to get market share.
>> > What is economic reality is the cost of these high end items by
>> Hasselblad,
>> > phase one, Canon, Nikon, Leica et al. Most people can not afford to use
>> > equipment at this level.
>> > What is probably a scandal is the price of film cameras. They
>> have so little
>> > in them either technology or componentry. I bet the ZI rangefinder has a
>> > -much- bigger profit margin than the Leica M8 or M9.
>> > All digital equipment has huge depreciation, be it computers,
>> home theater
>> > or cameras. This is really only a problem if you were
>> investing, or have to
>> > have the very latest thing. My daughter has my old 6 or 7
>> megapixel Canon
>> > dSLR and gets great results, despite it being worth little to
>> sell. Would
>> > she get better results on prints A4 from the latest 7D? The fact is, not
>> > much.
>> > Frank Dernie
>> >
>> > <This is what's happening with the current Leica S2 and M9
>> gear. The prices
>> > are completely out of step with economic  realities.  Right now
>> on the Leica
>> > Users Group, there is so much ridiculous reasoning to justify buying the
>> > $7000 M9 body hat I had to turn the digest off.   This, after
>> everybody just
>> > got over buying the already overpriced  M8 - now worth less
>> than half its
>> > new price!>
>> >
>> ---
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