[rollei_list] Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Another Capa Tidbit
- From: Walker Smith <doubs43@xxxxxxx>
- To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:32:34 -0400
The last airborne assault of the war was "Operation Varsity", the leap
across the Rhine River. My next door neighbor when I was growing up had
been a 17th Airborne Division Glider Troop in that fight. Some military
historians question whether it was necessary considering that the Allies
already were across the Rhine elsewhere.
Walker
Allen Zak wrote:
On Oct 25, 2007, at 1:19 AM, Marc James Small wrote:
(Certainly off-topic, but it is worthy to note that Marshall was
always trying to spur Eisenhower to be more daring and to use
parachute and glider troops to hit enemy rear areas. He tried with
Rome, he tried with Paris, he tried with Berlin, but the rather
stolid and unimaginate and inept Eisehower frustrated him every time,
though Eisenhower rather stupidly approved MARKET GARDEN, one of the
two most tragic failures in the history of airborne ops.)
Marc
On Oct 25, 2007, at 1:19 AM, Marc James Small wrote:
(Certainly off-topic, but it is worthy to note that Marshall was
always trying to spur Eisenhower to be more daring and to use
parachute and glider troops to hit enemy rear areas. He tried with
Rome, he tried with Paris, he tried with Berlin, but the rather
stolid and unimaginate and inept Eisehower frustrated him every time,
though Eisenhower rather stupidly approved MARKET GARDEN, one of the
two most tragic failures in the history of airborne ops.)
Marc
Until now, my view has accorded with yours, but lately I have been
entertaining the notion that maybe there was some wisdom in
Eisenhower's leadership. The generals he had to work with ranged in
aptitude from brilliant to much less, and he was not always in a
position to dispense with some of the problematic ones (Montgomery)
for reasons of inter alliance harmony. Market Garden is a good
illustration of what can happen when daring has its way if its planner
isn't good at it. Even when applied successfully, in re the German
airborne assault on Crete, casualties were so heavy that their general
staff abandoned the tactic as not worth the cost.
Daring and imagination are necessary when an armed force is at a
numerical, materiel or operational disadvantage, but seldom when at
overwhelming superiority (for all his brilliance, Robert E. Lee had to
surrender his army to a general who never approached his abilities).
Eisenhower had at his command resources enough to crush German
resistance, no matter what they did. Recently I saw a video interview
of a WW2 Panzer commander who said he believed his tankers could hold
their own outnumbered 2 to 1 against allied tanks, even 4 to 1, but it
was more like 8 to 1 they faced. In a situation like that, quantity
becomes a quality, and there is no need to risk setbacks with fancy
maneuvers when "stolid and unimaginative" will surely succeed.
Eisenhower, by opting for less intricacy, effectively finessed the
need for inspired generalship in exchange for fewer costly failures.
Not convinced, still thinking on it.
Allen Zak
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- References:
- [rollei_list] Another Capa Tidbit
- From: Marc James Small
- [rollei_list] Re: Another Capa Tidbit
- From: Allen Zak
Other related posts:
- » [rollei_list] Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Another Capa Tidbit
On Oct 25, 2007, at 1:19 AM, Marc James Small wrote:
(Certainly off-topic, but it is worthy to note that Marshall was always trying to spur Eisenhower to be more daring and to use parachute and glider troops to hit enemy rear areas. He tried with Rome, he tried with Paris, he tried with Berlin, but the rather stolid and unimaginate and inept Eisehower frustrated him every time, though Eisenhower rather stupidly approved MARKET GARDEN, one of the two most tragic failures in the history of airborne ops.)Marc
On Oct 25, 2007, at 1:19 AM, Marc James Small wrote:
(Certainly off-topic, but it is worthy to note that Marshall was always trying to spur Eisenhower to be more daring and to use parachute and glider troops to hit enemy rear areas. He tried with Rome, he tried with Paris, he tried with Berlin, but the rather stolid and unimaginate and inept Eisehower frustrated him every time, though Eisenhower rather stupidly approved MARKET GARDEN, one of the two most tragic failures in the history of airborne ops.)Marc
Until now, my view has accorded with yours, but lately I have been entertaining the notion that maybe there was some wisdom in Eisenhower's leadership. The generals he had to work with ranged in aptitude from brilliant to much less, and he was not always in a position to dispense with some of the problematic ones (Montgomery) for reasons of inter alliance harmony. Market Garden is a good illustration of what can happen when daring has its way if its planner isn't good at it. Even when applied successfully, in re the German airborne assault on Crete, casualties were so heavy that their general staff abandoned the tactic as not worth the cost.
Daring and imagination are necessary when an armed force is at a numerical, materiel or operational disadvantage, but seldom when at overwhelming superiority (for all his brilliance, Robert E. Lee had to surrender his army to a general who never approached his abilities). Eisenhower had at his command resources enough to crush German resistance, no matter what they did. Recently I saw a video interview of a WW2 Panzer commander who said he believed his tankers could hold their own outnumbered 2 to 1 against allied tanks, even 4 to 1, but it was more like 8 to 1 they faced. In a situation like that, quantity becomes a quality, and there is no need to risk setbacks with fancy maneuvers when "stolid and unimaginative" will surely succeed. Eisenhower, by opting for less intricacy, effectively finessed the need for inspired generalship in exchange for fewer costly failures.
Not convinced, still thinking on it. Allen Zak --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx- Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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- [rollei_list] Another Capa Tidbit
- From: Marc James Small
- [rollei_list] Re: Another Capa Tidbit
- From: Allen Zak