[rollei_list] Re: [OT] film vs digital

Grain is indeed a feature of film, and can either add character or ruin a photograph, depending on intentions.
"Traditional" photography is in no way more fine art than digital photography. Daguerrotypes are not more fine art than silver/gelatin either. The art is in the result, not the medium. A great picture is great, regardless of the medium and a grotty little picture from a mobile phone or digicam is as uninteresting as similar dross from an instamatic (or Rolleiflex if the photograph is poor).
This risks getting like the old "photography is not art because it isn't difficult enough" argument we used to get from painters. 
Frank


On 23 Jul, 2007, at 11:55, Carlos Manuel Freaza wrote:


Grain is superb for the image texture if the grain is
not exaggerated and according the image composition,
it contributes for the image character.
Traditional photography is fine arts.

All the best
Carlos
--- Frank Dernie <Frank.Dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
escribió:


They are very much different but, IMHO, not as
different as, for
example oils versus acrylic paint, and certainly
either of these
compared to watercolour.
At the end of whatever process one has chosen, film
- develop -
enlarge - develop print. Digital to print, digital
to print via some
sort of manipulation software or a scanned film
hybrid to digital
print a photographic print is the result.
Some people refer to prints from digital as
"plastic" I assume they
refer to the lack of grain (???) in fact for me it
has taken
"photographic realism" to a higher plane.

I processed my own film all my photographic life. I
have had a
darkroom in my house most of the last 45 years. I
still take
photographs on film for fun - but for me the whole
enlarge and
develop process - which is a technical skill I felt
I was still
improving even after so long - particularly
"mastering" the tiny
dynamic range and extreme contrast of Cibachrome -
was hard work and
very time consuming.
(Incidentally anybody thinking digital has a
restricted dynamic range
should try enlarging a Kodachrome slide onto Ciba).

I now print entirely from the computer and if I am
interrupted it is
no longer an inconvenience/catastrophe.
If your main objective is to consistently produce
good prints my
experience tells me digital is the best way.
The downside is cost. My Canon EOS 1Ds mk2 was very
much more
expensive than my Rolleiflex so you need to have
been a real film
eater for digital to be a choice based on economy
rather than results.
Frank

On 23 Jul, 2007, at 02:57, ERoustom wrote:


My first two days in my darkroom have me gleefully

puzzled. There

is so much to learn, and it will be a while before

I'm comfortably

making the all those connections from behind the

lens to in front

of the fix bath. It makes scanning negatives seem

easy and fast.

Peter's simile is so apt. Gaining skill,

intellectual, physical and

technical, and truly learning to be patient is

what film

photography (that goes the full cycle from click

to print) is all

about. It's a medium, and a discipline.
   My thinking about how I use my camera(s) what

films I choose,

has changed completely since the darkroom (and my

underdeveloped

film) humbled me this weekend. Maybe film and

digital shouldn't be

compared. It's clear to me now that they do

different things, and

demand different approaches.

Elias

On Jul 21, 2007, at 3:06 PM, J Patric Dahlén

wrote:




 Peter Nebergall wrote:

Comparing film to digital is like comparing the

NY Philharmonic

to a state
of the art rock synthesizer.  One is cheaper,

faster, and more

convenient;

the other is high art.


Very well said, Peter!

I own a digital compact camera, but I don't like

to use it to take

photos of my loved ones... Instead I use it for

fast documentation

and when I need photos of something to show on

the internet/send

with email...

There are more feelings involved when I use my

cameras for film,

and work in the darkroom. Then I feel creative. I

can always

digitalize film/prints when I want or need to.

Digital has it's

place, of course, even for me.

/Patric





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