I am not trying be argumentative with you(before we begin Carlos).You mention "Helmut Newton," his work was considered so bad, particularly the way he negatively portrays women, that his books had to be removed from the university library. If they weren't the feminists' would steal his books and dump them in the bin or tear them up Bob Carlos Clarke's work suffered the same fate. Interesting IMHO Mapplethorp was a master of composition, Avendon didn't share this talent, I'm thinking of Avendon's his full length portraits. So I think we differ in there. You mention that personal tragedy plays a part in Mapplethorp's success, the same is true of Diane Arbus that you mentioned, she photographed other peoples tragedy such as people with down syndrome, as well as committing suicide, which was her own personal tragedy. While the first has made her work controversial, the second has made her appear "authentic." Marvin. -----Original Message----- From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza Sent: 08 March 2010 06:50 To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT Mapplethorp (was Re: Re:) Robert Mapplethorpe: He was a good photographer about technique, his prints have a high technical quality as Richard Avedon was known in part thanks to his high quality prints, those ones with the Agfa Brovira paper specially. Mapplethorpe reflected his personal sexual preferences in his artistical work but it does not have the subtlety to show and to compose male and female bodies and their context that you can find in most of Helmut Newton work to quote an example. Mapplethorpe work has been favoured thanks to certain general disfavor to facts in his life and because his work mixed good photographic technique with sexual controversy and pornography and a bit of art and personal tragedy, excellent coctail for a commercial success, but it does not convert him in a master of the square format above other true photography masters within or out of the square format IMO.- Carlos --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list