[rollei_list] Re: OT: 35mm RF (Voigtlander Bessa)

  • From: Jeffery Smith <jls@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:39:00 -0500

The nice thing about Leica is that they can be repaired for decades to come. There are lots of parts around and still some people who do fine work on them. The Leica M4 came at a time when Leica had decided to stop making rangefinders. A year later, they started making them again due to demand, and the M4-2 (made in Canada) was the result. They are the least reliable of the Leica M cameras, thus the low price. If I were going to spend money on a used Leica, I would go with the M6 as it has a meter. An M6 in decent condition will be about US$1,400. That makes it just about the same price as two Bessa R cameras new.

The Voigtlander glass is very good. The only lens I have used from them that was disappointing was the 50/2.5 Skopar. If you want to go with a fast 50 that rivals Leica glass, the 50/1.5 Voigtlander Nokton asph is very good, but a bit heavy. Much, much smaller is the 40/1.4 Nokton, a very nice lens.

The Leica is a bit more awkward to load, but it isn't hard to use. It is much more solid than the Bessa and Zeiss Ikon, and much quieter as well. If you want to do street photography, a Leica or Bessa with one fast lens (50 or wider) would serve you well for 90% of your shooting. Both have very bright viewfinders and are easy to focus in low light. Leica, Voigtlander, and Zeiss Ikon can all use M-mount and LTM mount lenses (the latter with an adaptor). And the Leica is much more reliable in the long run than any of the others. So the only downside to Leica is that they cost more. Much higher build quality and reliability makes them a good value in the long run.


At 04:05 PM 4/19/2006, you wrote:

Hi Jeffery,

thanks for the tip.

It looks nice. Thinking about it, there are two things that make me hesitate. First is that the lens is rather slow. 90% (actually 100% as long as it's available) of what I shoot in 35mm is K64. Often indoors (kids, Scandinavian winters, etc). When Kodak kills it and it's gone for good, I'm not sure what I'll use, if anything. Maybe I'll get an old Rolleiflex (finally! LOL :-)). Second is that I'm not a one lens shooter. I like to have 2 or 3 lenses available, like a 35mm, 50mm and 90mm or thereabouts.

Looking at prices, it appears that I could get a used M4-2 or M4-P for the same (or less) as a new Bessa R3a or R2S. What am I giving up by going Leica? Am I going to get gouged when picking up a few fast lenses, or can I use Voigtlander or other makes? Is Leica a pain in the *** to use? I like simple, ergonomic systems, but I don't want to go backwards just to be different.

Thor


On 19 Apr, 2006, at 21:43, Jeffery Smith wrote:

Thor,

A very nice rangefinder that would be good for outdoor photography is the Bessa R2S commemorative edition. It is a Nikon-mount rangefinder (metered) with a 50/3.5 Heliar (non-collapsible). If you decide you want to use it indoors, used Nikon 50/1.4 lenses are pretty common. The Heliar is the best performing lens I have ever used. Cameraquest sell them, but they are no longer being made. If you are a one camera, one lens shooter like HCB, it is a good one provided you can live with the slowness of the lens.

Jeffery


At 11:36 AM 4/19/2006, you wrote:
Jan,

great news indeed! I hadn't been to the site in about a month, this was not there last I looked. I'll get right over there and start reading.

I'm not interested in snobbery, but will pay willingly for real quality. Is the Voigtlander glass comparable to Nikkor, or Canon, or Zeiss? (I refrain from using the "L" word for fear of starting a religious conflict). I.e. solid quality? It doesn't have to be the final word (this is after all 35mm), but I don't want to pay a premium for junk...

Cheers,
Thor


On 19 Apr, 2006, at 20:18, Jan Decher wrote:

Thor:

If you check the Cameraquest website
(http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm )you will see that both the more
refined R3A and R2A "Bessa's" will soon be out in all manual versions as
R3M and R2M, together with a very nice collapsible "Heliar" 2.0/50mm.

I just bought a 1.4/40mm "Nokton" for my bargain restored Leica M3, while
my collapsible 2.0/50 Summicron front element is being polished and
recoated by Arax.  The 40mm has a wonderful feel!  Will have first results
on Provia 100 F tomorrow morning.  If the new Bessa's are even half as well
put together as this lens I am quite tempted to order the R3M as a metered
body with the 40 mm frame and maybe even a chrome 2.0/50 Heliar to replace
the Summicron.

Who cares if Cosina RF's are not "real" Voigtlaenders or Zeiss Ikons!
Fact
is, that classic ZI Contaxes are out of production since 1961 and Leicas
are overpriced new and used (unless you are lucky).  Cosina's Mr. Kobayashi
is giving RF shooters, who are resisting the digital trend, some really
nice affordable RF's and lots of excellent lenses and accessories at
different price levels to choose from.  His recent collaboration with Zeiss
for ZM and ZF/S lenses is a welcome replacement for the Contax G, C/Y and N
systems demise.

I suggested to him to do the same for MF by reviving the classic East
German Praktisix or postwar Exakta 66 with a reliable metal shutter,
precise metering and Zeiss designed lenses in P6 mount.  Such a new 6x6
camera could gain a good following, with the Contax 645 defunct and
Hasselblad barely hanging on.

So get your Bessa and enjoy shooting. Cartier-Bresson might have done the
same had he lived today.  I am sure he hated missing all those "decisive
moments" while fiddling with the bottom-loading of his Leica.. ;-)
Cheers,
Jan

====
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:03:03 +0200
From: Thor Legvold <tlegvold@xxxxxxx>
Well,
thanks again to everyone who helped me learn more last year about a
replacement for my friends Minox GT. They got a Bessa R3a and a 40/1.4
to go with it a while back. I was over at their place recently and
helped them go through it and get to know it - wow what a really nice
camera!....
Are there any users who can help me weight pro's /cons of Voigtlander
vs. others? I don't want auto everything, or motors, or autofocus so
the Hexar and Contax G2 and such are out. I'm thinking either
Voigtlander, or vintage (is there a lot of old, nice, available and
cheap stuff to be had?) or possibly Leica if there exists something
reasonably priced that is comparable to the Bessa.
Cheers,
Thor


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