The nice thing about Leica is that they can be repaired for decades
to come. There are lots of parts around and still some people who do
fine work on them. The Leica M4 came at a time when Leica had decided
to stop making rangefinders. A year later, they started making them
again due to demand, and the M4-2 (made in Canada) was the result.
They are the least reliable of the Leica M cameras, thus the low
price. If I were going to spend money on a used Leica, I would go
with the M6 as it has a meter. An M6 in decent condition will be
about US$1,400. That makes it just about the same price as two Bessa
R cameras new.
The Voigtlander glass is very good. The only lens I have used from
them that was disappointing was the 50/2.5 Skopar. If you want to go
with a fast 50 that rivals Leica glass, the 50/1.5 Voigtlander Nokton
asph is very good, but a bit heavy. Much, much smaller is the 40/1.4
Nokton, a very nice lens.
The Leica is a bit more awkward to load, but it isn't hard to use. It
is much more solid than the Bessa and Zeiss Ikon, and much quieter as
well. If you want to do street photography, a Leica or Bessa with one
fast lens (50 or wider) would serve you well for 90% of your
shooting. Both have very bright viewfinders and are easy to focus in
low light. Leica, Voigtlander, and Zeiss Ikon can all use M-mount and
LTM mount lenses (the latter with an adaptor). And the Leica is much
more reliable in the long run than any of the others. So the only
downside to Leica is that they cost more. Much higher build quality
and reliability makes them a good value in the long run.
At 04:05 PM 4/19/2006, you wrote:
Hi Jeffery,
thanks for the tip.
It looks nice. Thinking about it, there are two things that make me hesitate. First is that the lens is rather slow. 90% (actually 100% as long as it's available) of what I shoot in 35mm is K64. Often indoors (kids, Scandinavian winters, etc). When Kodak kills it and it's gone for good, I'm not sure what I'll use, if anything. Maybe I'll get an old Rolleiflex (finally! LOL :-)). Second is that I'm not a one lens shooter. I like to have 2 or 3 lenses available, like a 35mm, 50mm and 90mm or thereabouts.
Looking at prices, it appears that I could get a used M4-2 or M4-P for the same (or less) as a new Bessa R3a or R2S. What am I giving up by going Leica? Am I going to get gouged when picking up a few fast lenses, or can I use Voigtlander or other makes? Is Leica a pain in the *** to use? I like simple, ergonomic systems, but I don't want to go backwards just to be different.
Thor
On 19 Apr, 2006, at 21:43, Jeffery Smith wrote:
Thor,
A very nice rangefinder that would be good for outdoor photography is the Bessa R2S commemorative edition. It is a Nikon-mount rangefinder (metered) with a 50/3.5 Heliar (non-collapsible). If you decide you want to use it indoors, used Nikon 50/1.4 lenses are pretty common. The Heliar is the best performing lens I have ever used. Cameraquest sell them, but they are no longer being made. If you are a one camera, one lens shooter like HCB, it is a good one provided you can live with the slowness of the lens.
Jeffery
At 11:36 AM 4/19/2006, you wrote:Jan,
great news indeed! I hadn't been to the site in about a month, this was not there last I looked. I'll get right over there and start reading.
I'm not interested in snobbery, but will pay willingly for real quality. Is the Voigtlander glass comparable to Nikkor, or Canon, or Zeiss? (I refrain from using the "L" word for fear of starting a religious conflict). I.e. solid quality? It doesn't have to be the final word (this is after all 35mm), but I don't want to pay a premium for junk...
Cheers, Thor
On 19 Apr, 2006, at 20:18, Jan Decher wrote:
Thor:
If you check the Cameraquest website (http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm )you will see that both the more refined R3A and R2A "Bessa's" will soon be out in all manual versions as R3M and R2M, together with a very nice collapsible "Heliar" 2.0/50mm.
I just bought a 1.4/40mm "Nokton" for my bargain restored Leica M3, while my collapsible 2.0/50 Summicron front element is being polished and recoated by Arax. The 40mm has a wonderful feel! Will have first results on Provia 100 F tomorrow morning. If the new Bessa's are even half as well put together as this lens I am quite tempted to order the R3M as a metered body with the 40 mm frame and maybe even a chrome 2.0/50 Heliar to replace the Summicron.
Who cares if Cosina RF's are not "real" Voigtlaenders or Zeiss Ikons! Fact is, that classic ZI Contaxes are out of production since 1961 and Leicas are overpriced new and used (unless you are lucky). Cosina's Mr. Kobayashi is giving RF shooters, who are resisting the digital trend, some really nice affordable RF's and lots of excellent lenses and accessories at different price levels to choose from. His recent collaboration with Zeiss for ZM and ZF/S lenses is a welcome replacement for the Contax G, C/Y and N systems demise.
I suggested to him to do the same for MF by reviving the classic East German Praktisix or postwar Exakta 66 with a reliable metal shutter, precise metering and Zeiss designed lenses in P6 mount. Such a new 6x6 camera could gain a good following, with the Contax 645 defunct and Hasselblad barely hanging on.
So get your Bessa and enjoy shooting. Cartier-Bresson might have done the same had he lived today. I am sure he hated missing all those "decisive moments" while fiddling with the bottom-loading of his Leica.. ;-) Cheers, Jan
==== Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:03:03 +0200 From: Thor Legvold <tlegvold@xxxxxxx> Well, thanks again to everyone who helped me learn more last year about a replacement for my friends Minox GT. They got a Bessa R3a and a 40/1.4 to go with it a while back. I was over at their place recently and helped them go through it and get to know it - wow what a really nice camera!.... Are there any users who can help me weight pro's /cons of Voigtlander vs. others? I don't want auto everything, or motors, or autofocus so the Hexar and Contax G2 and such are out. I'm thinking either Voigtlander, or vintage (is there a lot of old, nice, available and cheap stuff to be had?) or possibly Leica if there exists something reasonably priced that is comparable to the Bessa. Cheers, Thor
--- Rollei List
- Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
--- Rollei List
- Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
--- Rollei List
- Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
--- Rollei List
- Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
--- Rollei List
- Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list