[rollei_list] Re: Bob Shell Is On Trial

I defend your right to "have an opinion" and be judgemental on anything that takes your fancy. But one is expected to, when excercising this "right", is to show a little compassion.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Haight" <rhaightjr@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 4:47 AM
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Bob Shell Is On Trial


It is wrong for us to have opinions on anything, lest
we be freethinkers or forbid, judgmental. Ignore those
who question your right to think and form opinions. We
all have the right to our opinions. We are not jurors
in life but rather participants, free to experience,
learn and opine as we please. Much of what we see
around us in todays world occuring stems from lack of
character to be, yes, judgmental. Bob H
--- Richard Knoppow <dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


----- Original Message ----- From: "J Saldanha" <tyco@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:59 AM
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Bob Shell Is On Trial


> Your error, Mr Small, was to broadcast Mr. Shell's

> predicament.  All these comments in the rollei
list
> must bring small comfort to Mr. Shell in his
present
> circumstances. You can see what Mr. Shell is now
exposed
> to;
> shallow analysis, full of inuendo and nastiness
like the
> one from the correspondent who sports all his
achievements
> after his name. You should have left the matter
between
> Mr. Shell and yourself.
>
     I certainly agree with your characterization of
some of
the posting here, but, IMO it was _not_ an _error_
on Mr.
Small's part. He was simply aquatinting the list
members
with the fact that a long-delayed trial of a friend
was
finally progressing. He posted a source of
information for
those interested in following the case.
     Please note that Marc Small is an attorney and
that he
represented Mr.Shell at the beginning of this
trouble and
that Mr. Shell is both a long time participant in
this
mailing list and also a well known figure in the
world of
photography. He has many acquaintances here, people
who have
some interest in his future, that is, a legitimate
interest
in this trial. Also, in the United States of America
trials
are required to be _public_. This is one of many
checks to
insure justice and prevent "star-chamber" trials. In

informing the list about the trial Mr.Small was not
telling
us anything that was not already public.
     It is also very important to recognize the
principle in
Anglo-American law that a person is presumed
innocent until
proven guilty in a court of law. In a criminal
proceeding
the evidence must meet quite high standards before
it is
presented to a jury and can be challenged on many
basis by
the defence. The defendant does NOT have to present
a
defense but the defense attorney can nonetheless
challenge
the stuffing out of whatever the prosecution
presents: that
is a large part of the job of the defense. IMO, the
presumption of innocence may be the most important
right a
citizen has.
     In any type of case, criminal or civil, the
members of
the jury are forbidden to speculate about the
meaning of the
evidence or the nature of the guilt until all the
evidence
has been presented to them and they are required to
determine the truth. That way they are not operating
on
untested or partial evidence, or on information that
may not
qualify as evidence. It also insures that both
sides, and
the judge, have had their say.
     I think we should adopt the standard required
of the
jury here: no speculation about what happened, we
know very
little on which to base this. I think we should also
adopt
the standard that a person is considered innocent of
a
charge until _proven_ guilty. All the discussion of
the
charges here have been implacatory of guilt: in my
never
humble opinion this is wrong.
     Please let us refrain from discussion, and,
especially,
speculation until the case is decided. Again, Bob
Shell is a
friend to us even though most of us have not met him
in
person. He deserves at least our consideration if
not also
our support. I think I would rather have to deal
with a
serious disease than be involved with the law: it
must be
extremely difficult for Bob and his family. Please,
as his
friends, let us not contribute to this difficulty.

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

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