And I guess I just don't believe in drilling a bunch of holes in the
aiframe for frigging switches.
That's not mil-spec.
What Alan said, we have a metal conductive plate we screw down on the
airframe, like a real rocket.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It depends on the rocket. Some have no room for switches.
Others, I use the ones I sent you :-)
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:13 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Bryan had an Arduino with a ‘break out board’ I think he called it. He
described what it could do; really cool stuff. And, he had some simple
sensors he was experimenting with, including a vibration sensor. Wow. I’m
just starting to learn 3D printing.
So, you guys do the twist. It just hurts my back. And, no twisting
wires to power the RealFlight! That’s milspec.
*From: *James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 19, 2017 9:03 PM
*To: *R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Cc: *ROC Chat <roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject: *Re: [roc-chat] Re: Twisting Wires
So go get yourself an Arduino pro-mega and write some code to de-bounce
the switches
so you can drive a FET for power - it is a fun an easy project and you
would have one button
for multiple sources.
Hey, maybe there is a market for something like that. Maybe we should
make a little switch board
with some open source firmware...
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 8:54 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I understand that simple is better than unnecessary complexity.
Honestly, I enjoy complexity, but it has to make some sense.
But there are some other things with the twisting wire connection, like
messing with twisting the wires and nesting them in the hole used for
protection and then applying tape. It increases dwell time for powering
up. Personally, I like to turn the switch and stand back a bit to hear the
power-up.
The other thing is initiating multiple devices. For example, my current
little project has 3 timers and an altimeter. I don’t want all those wires
sticking out of the airframe. 😊
Twisting wires perhaps has it’s place. Switches are better.
Perhaps you are a little bit country, and I like rock n’ roll. LOL
*From: *James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:38 PM
*To: *ROC Chat <roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject: *[roc-chat] Re: Twisting Wires
Hey Richard, that's a pretty quixotic venture there buddy ...
KISS!!
12" of shooters wire - done.
1/4" ID 4x heatshrink
Only downside is you have to abort ( I use a peer of needlenose ESD
tweezers to fish the wire out of the venthole
and OMG it is a PITA).
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 8:23 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I’ve given the twist wires some thought. Here are a couple reasons I
don’t like it.
- Seems you would have to keep the wires from being damaged during
transport and even potentially damaging the inside connections from
pushing
and pulling. Even if there’s some protection from stress, if you handle
the wires at all, you are moving them inside and potentially weakening
the
connection points.
- The wires are on the outside of the airframe. Probably not an
issue with drag, but could be damaged during the drogue deployment or
when
the rocket hits the ground. Not a big deal if the main deployed, but
what
if it didn’t.
- Recycling is a problem. If the wires were twisted adequately to
assure the connection, it might be difficult to make a clean
disconnection. I guess you could cut them, but might be a hassle
providing
new bare wires. Particularly if there’s stress protection. If you
twist
and untwist the wires, they will be weakened. OK, the people that seem
to
be using this technique probably don’t have to recycle many rockets.
Have
I ever seen Wedge have to put a new igniter in his rocket? LOL.
The bigger question: Why are some people using this technique? It is
simple, but perhaps it’s also because installing the group of switches we
commonly use is a hassle.
Mounting a reliable toggle switch is out. Slider switches, even if
they are installed on the inside of the airframe, are really bad for rocket
use. It’s difficult to install a switch on a sled and have it line up
properly with an access hole on the airframe. Installing panel mounted
switches on a curved airframe can be a pain. Particularly if it’s a
smaller diameter rocket. Barrel-type key switches work, but after awhile
they get to be dorky. And, the irregular holes take time to make. The
“good” switches don’t seem to come with a simple way to mount and use
them. For example, microswitches. They’re good switches, but making them
work for our use can be a project in itself.
If there was a reliable switch mechanism (like the Aerocon PCB switch),
mounted in a holder that you could attach/epoxy to the inside of the
airframe after you drilled a hole to access the switch, people would be
more inclined to use this than twisting the wires. You have to drill
multiple holes for the wires anyway. If the switch came with wires already
properly soldered, it would be pretty easy to install. The switch doesn’t
have to be a component on a bay sled. Some people don’t want it to be.
I would like to see a 3D printer design that would hold an Aerocon PCB
switch to the inside of an airframe tube. Keep in mind that if two sides
are the epoxy attachment points the switch would work for many different
sizes of tube. If the hole was smaller than the head of the activation
screw and it was close enough to the inside of the airframe, the screw
could not come completely out.
Richard Dierking
*From: *Chris Attebery <chrisattebery1971@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 19, 2017 6:57 PM
*To: *roc-chat <roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject: *[roc-chat] Re: Twisting Wires
Gerald,
If I ever use twist and tuck I'll use your method. Nice job.
Chris
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 6:45 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hey Gerald,
WHere's that picture you took at LDRS with the Marilyn and
heat-shrink? :-)
-james
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 5:17 PM, gerald meux, JR. <
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
See post #55 on link below for visual form of one way of doing twist
and tuck.
http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?112713-How-many-
switches-on-a-dual-alt-recovery-system&p=1302474#post1302474
Thanks -
gerald meux, jr.
602-472-5869 <(602)%20472-5869>
kninja250r@xxxxxxxxx
-from mobile device-
On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:59 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Evidently twisting wires to activate electronics can work very well.
Gerald has done this on his high-performance projects. So it works with
high velocity and altitude.
I’m kidding a bit about the practice. But there’s a correct (safe
and reliable) way to set-up twisting wires. Not the twist part; the it’s
the way the wires are secured in the airframe and protecting them from
shorting or coming apart during the flight.
Richard
*From: *Wedge Oldham <wedgeoldham@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:26 PM
*To: *roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject: *[roc-chat] Re: Twisting Wires
I twist my wires once. Then replace with new.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 19, 2017, at 1:31 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
OMG, Chris Kobel is another twister. Well, it’s out there now thanks
to RickyLeaks. Like when I saw James D (one of the most technical savvy
people I know), twist the arming wires to his electronics and stick them
in
a two stage rocket. I thought, OMG, my buddy is a bohemian.
So, perhaps shoe strings and belts would even been too complicated
for you guys. Yup, slip on shoes and elastic waist bands for you.
��
So twisting wires or switches…Can you twist and untwist two wires 300
times without a failure?
LOL
Richard
*From: *Chris J Kobel <chris.j.kobel@xxxxxxxx>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 19, 2017 1:13 PM
*To: *roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject: *[roc-chat] Re: Twisting Wires
Full disclosure, I use switches on most of my dual deploy rockets. I
had one micro slide switch fail, thank goodness for independent,
redundant
electronics. I’m twisting wires because I haven’t bothered (yet) to
replace the failed switch J
Chris
*From:* R Dierking [mailto:applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx
<applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>]
*Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2017 1:04 PM
*To:* Chris J Kobel <chris.j.kobel@xxxxxxxx>; roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* RE: [roc-chat] Twisting Wires
I hate the twisting wire technique. Yet, some people that I look up
to actually do this. It’s just so barbarian. And, then they stick the
wires back in a hole in the airframe. Freakn crazy dude.
I imagine someone twisting some wires on a Falcon 9 before launch.
Hopefully they would read the technical manual on how to do it correctly.
If it was at JPL, they would have the technician twisting the wires while
two engineers watch. LOL
Richard Dierking
*From: *Chris J Kobel <chris.j.kobel@xxxxxxxx>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 19, 2017 12:48 PM
*To: *roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject: *[roc-chat] Twisting Wires
More and more, this conversation is encouraging me to keep twisting
my wires together. Somebody mentioned it previously…is there a “right”
way
to do it, to go along with all the wrongs ways I’ve tried?
(I do try to insulate the twisted wires and tie a piece of string on
them so I can fish them out of a breather hole to disconnect them after a
flight…)
Chris Kobel
*From:* roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:roc-chat-bounce@freeli
sts.org <roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *R Dierking
*Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2017 12:40 PM
*To:* Kenneth Brown <ken@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [roc-chat] Re: Switch Warning - Schurter 110-220
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding Ken. I don’t routinely have
the soldering iron dwell on the contacts that long. Just trying to
figure
out potential failure modes for this switch. The objective is to provide
information to people that have already used these switches in projects,
and maybe others that will use them in the future. Verses, “hey, don’t
use
these switches.”
For example: If someone is planning on using one of these switches,
they could have good information about how to install them and solder the
contacts. Also, and I think this is very important, they should be
advised
on how to check the installed switch for problems before flying their
project.
This helps not only for the case of using these switches, but for
using other electronics as well. Having detailed information on the
device, and testing before flying a project is always a good idea.
Richard Dierking