Yeah Richard; we see this all the time in the tech industry. Look up
Gartner's 'Peak of inflated Expectations'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
Matt
On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 3:59 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Yes, maybe in the long term methane would be more efficient. So, some
researcher considered using part of the landing structure as fuel for a
hybrid engine?
Still think that we (they?) are stuck on methane/LOX. And, I believe it
would be cryogenic methane right?
I’m thinking that Elon Musk didn’t go to NASA first when he was
considering SpaceX’s mission. They probably would have told him they
launch real rockets and to go play with his computers. 😊
Most of what we see on TV, including the Mars program I actually like is
way off what would actually happen. People will be orbiting Mars a long
time before landing there. And, the first big piece of equipment that
lands there should be something like a backhoe and it should be made by a
company like Caterpillar not JPL.
There’s lots of talk about colonizing Mars lately. I’m probably spending
way more than my 2cents, but I don’t think anyone is going to take human
Mars exploration seriously until someone lands there (without people thank
you!), and gets back. It just makes sense to bring some rocks back too.
😉
So, where’s the Mars sample Mr. Musk?
Please no one be offended; just opinions and friendly discussion. *Still
want to hear the RRS – SpaceX story!* Maybe someone on chat was there?
Richard
*From: *Allen Farrington <allen.farrington@xxxxxx>
*Sent: *Saturday, December 3, 2016 2:46 PM
*To: *roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject: *[roc-chat] Re: Mars Exploration and Rocketry
Regarding Methane...don't think of it as stuck on...think of it as the
best solution after years of study.
The only practical way to get back off the surface of Mars is to make the
prop there. It's very expensive (in resources) to land fuel onto a planet.
Read Goddard's paper for the math.
So after much study and analysis, Methane/Lox is the choice because
breaking down the atmospheric CO2 is less energy expensive than breaking
down soil. Plus, you get both the reactants from one process, breaking down
soil would require at least twice the energy.
Google "MOXIE" and "Mars" to get info on how that works.
Allen
Terseness and mis-spelling courtesy of my iPhone
On Dec 3, 2016, at 1:55 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I don’t think the exploration of Mars is too extreme a subject to be
considered off-topic on chat. I don’t want to go off-topic myself, but we
should all agree that rockets and space exploration are topics on chat,
other topics are off-topic and should be avoided on ROCchat. Do we agree
on that?
I’ve been watching the National Geographic series called Mars.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/mars/
It’s drama mixed with commentary. I think it’s a pretty good show. It
helps us think about the possibilities and challenges of sending humans to
Mars ( i.e. economic, social, technological, political, etc.).
*Mars exploration and our little community of amateur rocketry has a
connection that many people don’t know about.* For example, I don’t know
the details, but there’s a connection between RRS and SpaceX. Perhaps
someone that is familiar with the history of this can elaborate?
Anyway, Rocketry and Mars Exploration! I see a lot of interest in
developing methane/LOX rockets for Mars. I wonder if other possibilities
are being considered. For example, a hybrid rocket engine. If the mass of
fuel for the return would be costly to transport, perhaps the fuel could be
part of the landing structure and then converted to fuel? Or maybe the
Mars soil has compounds that could be used for fuel. Sorry, I just don’t
see why it seems we are stuck on Methane, or even bi-pro engines. And, the
alternative of just offering one-way trips; hum, not sure about that one.
How could anyone be completely sure about a one-way trip?
Also, there’s a Sample Return Mission that’s being considered.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mars-sample-return-msr/
Funny, every time I see images of the sample return mission, I see a
rocket being launched at Lucerne. 😊 I have so many questions about
this proposed mission and how this rocket is going to be chosen and
developed. And, how about tested?
Richard Dierking
