Okay, I've been pondering on it, and I just realized the fallability of imageing, as opposed to a direct method of removing every trace of an offending program, if we only had a monitor that would record all entries as they were originally made, so all could be removed. Here's my experience, it's not always just after you install something that you notice that things aren't quite right. It may be months later that odd things keep appearing, then going away, only to reappear.
So, when imageing, or with System Restore, how far back to I go?Have you always been able to tell exactly which installation began the problems? Tom Kingston and I just had a little conversation about changes in Thunderbird after Windows 7.5.2.
I commented that Winize read text to end command didn't work any more. Tom said he hadn't noticed, because he never uses that command in email. Through no fault of his, he wouldn't have known about that loss .Same with me, maybe a month or more after installing something, I might try something and learn it doesn't work any more. In my experience, sometimes it's easy to tell what the offender is, sometimes impossible. And, with thiether Image reversion or system restore; I lose all installations made between the installation of the offender and the present day, right? I just had to System Restore my new computer back to the day I took it out of the box, I think, because Code Meter caused it to totally freeze. Part of the installation of drivers and control panel for my sound card are still in place; but the sound card doesn't work now, so I have to re install those. The sound card wasn't the offender, it was Reason 6 that I installed later that same day, but the restore point took out all of Reason 6 and part of the sound card's files. Imageing could be more precise, but it doesn't get around the issue, how far back do you revert, and goodbye to all else that's been installed in between.
Indigo L On 11/26/2011 6:34 AM, D!J!X! wrote:
It's not just a folder or 2, it's a complete system that runs even after reason is long gone! If you run the windows task manager, I can assure you that you'll find codeMeeter and whatever other helper services it launches running on your system, though Reason (who installed it on there by the way), has been long gone! HTH, D!J!X! -----Original Message----- From: realmusicians-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:realmusicians-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jack Conti Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 6:46 PM To: realmusicians@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [realmusicians] Re: Running Winize 7.5.2, god Help Me? well, then the questikon is since i see a folder on my daw code metering. who put thaqT THERE DIR REASON? i did uninstall reason a couple of weeeks ago and assumed everything got taken out> correct? At 10:40 AM 11/23/2011, you wrote:Actually, those tools will probably do more damager than help. The OC is actually built in the BIOS, you can select various profiles that MSI provides or create your own. However, all that CPU technology will harm your system more than help it. Are you running the Z68 chipset? With that kind of system win7 should be smooth! But it all depends on the daw builder who built and customized it and if they did the required tweaks (both hardware and software wise) to get it to sanity D!J!X! -----Original Message----- From: realmusicians-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:realmusicians-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Indigo Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:24 AM To: realmusicians@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [realmusicians] Re: Running Winize 7.5.2, god Help Me? You're right, DX, I've also noticed that Code Metering system on both the Windows 7 and XP machine, not that I can say it's slowing the system, but I hear those words Code Metering often when booting or closingdown.It's one of those dratted anti piracy systems, like Pace Lock, or whatever its name is, that burrows deeply into the system. There is a good example of when to use CCleaner on the registry, so it can find all orphaned files and other leftovers from uninstall of Reason., possibly even leftovers of Code Metering or Pace anti piracy. My specs, second generation I7 2600, 3.4 ghz, turbos to 3.8 ghz, with 8 gigs ddr3 ram, 1.5 TB 7200 rpm hard drive, MCI 7680MI motherboard. ZT Systems supplies full Windows 7 on disk, plus the full MCI motherboard manual. That motherboard has its own turbo boost, called Genie OC, I still haven't found which button on the case does the ghz boost, if it's hooked up from the motherboard, or how high the ghz would go if I usedGenie OC.Indigo L On 11/22/2011 11:48 PM, D!J!X! wrote:Not to start a war here, but have you configured and optimized windows7 for daw use? Also, what are your system specs? Actually one of reason's new drawbacks is that protection system they're now using; it runs this code meeter service, which has these sparatic spikes from time to time, not to mention, it won't let go of your system, even after uninstalling reason and everything else... On one of my test systems, a pentium dual core, the system continually ran slow until I restored my preReason6 installation image. I've been meaning to try it on xp, as I did the tests on win7, both x86 and 64. Regards, D!J!X! -----Original Message----- From: realmusicians-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:realmusicians-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Indigo Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 8:44 PM To: realmusicians@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [realmusicians] Re: Running Winize 7.5.2, god Help Me? No crackling on the I7 machine running any of those Reason demo songs, plus playing along with them from midi keyboard. System restore is still on on that machine, but I turned it off years ago on the slow old music machine I'm not worrying about excess latency or anything else on the new 64 bit I7, because in a little longer I'll put Windows XP Pro on a Samsung F3 and I'll be back in happy hog heaven; back on stable XP and good old predictable WindowEyes6.1, but on a more powerful machine.I had no problem whatsoever getting 5 ms latency, even 3ms, on both the Emu PCI sound card and the PCIE Emu 1616m, on that slow old machine, which played 1 or 2 of Reason 6's devices just fine, it just couldn't cope with those demo songs, where 5 or 6 devices are runningsimultaneously.I had fewer glitches in 32 bits Reason 6 than I do on a new computer with many times more power. I'm not impressed with the stability of Win7 64. it reminds me of my friend's 700 horsepower supercharged Corvette. It might go 200 miles an hour, but his car went through a set of crankshaft bearings in a week. How impractical is that? Sorry, maybe I'll become a Mennonite, the horse and buggy approach is more peaceful. smile. Indigo L On 11/22/2011 8:18 PM, Chris Belle wrote:Indie, if your worried about crackling and latency in your audio though you might want it off on your music machines, it's something toconsider.Why bog a race horse down with a sumo wrestler if you don't have to'grin'.But if you like it, then it's golden. At 07:00 PM 11/22/2011, you wrote:I'm not going to worry about System Restore being a resource hog, it saved me more than once now, and these four and 8 core machines are still plenty fast enough with System Restore running. On 11/22/2011 2:27 PM, Jack Conti wrote:Tell you what it has bailed me out about three times over the lastyear.windows just simply screws up sometimes and just bringing mhy system back a day helped. it even fixed a window eyes issue for me since i di a couple bad things<smile> At 02:19 PM 11/22/2011, youwrote:I don't have system restore running all the time as it's a resource hog. It's not really the same thing as an image, only backs up certain files, it's a half assed microsoft thing no serious itperson uses it.Well, let's say would depend on it for a real backup. At 12:14 PM 11/22/2011, you wrote:Can't you do a system restore, back a couple of days, before all this mess hit the fan? On 11/22/2011 1:05 PM, Chris Belle wrote:You too huh? Well, I lost my we 7.2 disk temporarily while the studio was being built, so even though I owned window-eyes through 2 sma's a good friend of mine lent me an iso so I could enjoy the dubious pleasures of being a paying beta tester 'grin'. I guess that's what we are with all this software. I've come to the conclusion that we 7.2 was pretty good especially after the refresh, then after all the furniture was moved around it took a nose dive again. I didn't have the luxury of having the option to go back to 751 and use my own copy of we. After I found my copy burried in a box someplace, I guess I didn't imediately rectify putting my own on all the machines, and so, I'm out of luck. This all happened at the time when I felt I was really treated badly by gwmicro, booted unsarimoniously off the beta team because I stood up to Doug because all he wanted to hear about at the time were scripting issues, and I felt there were important issues with the core functionallity of we not being deltwith.So i didn't feel like asking for another disk and handing over 20 bucks, petty I know, but it really hurt at the time. I don't care anymore, I think these access companies are all the same, some a little better than others, but when you run a business, the bottom line is making a living. Doug's going to make a whole lot more money selling new copies of window-eyes for as long as he can, and these little devices which he can resell and not have to baby-sit too much, and the writing's on the wall, with w8 coming out with a pretty good narrator, the mac coming on strong, and these little screen-readers like nvda being nearly as good as the big guys for more work a day tasks, I think the screen-reader landscape is gonna change and the survivors will have to do something different. It won't be tomorrow, but you know even fs has lowered their price for an sma, and they never do that. Guess they're feeling the pinch too, so many blind folks buying macs now, and or using the free stuff? The cavvy course through sisco that Stephie is taking recommended nvda over jaws or window-eyes and you would be very supprised at how good that little reader is. the only thing it lacks is direct pixel control of where to place the mouse, you can't move by delta values yet, but it will read much stuff that is silent to window-eyes, especially in windows 7. How is it that a little free or donation supported screen reader can be so stable and work so well, when the big guys are so troublesome? Is it the bloat factor? I think therecomes a time with any software when it reaches a critical mass and then as features are piled on, and old code isn't updated or taken out, it becomes less stable, responsive, and buggy. And I'm no programmer, but I know enough to know how difficult and elusive these things can be, especially with low level stuff, and the ever changing target of how to even hook in to operating systems, dcm, mirror drivers, ui and the whole nastymess.so I don't think it's malice, I think gwmicro is trying to survive, like a friend of mine pointed out, neglect and disrespect can be mistaken for quiet desperation. Doug's got a payroll to make. also, there's been a lot of personallity turn over over there it seems to me and one of the main programmers died too right? so, it would probably take a new programmer a lot of time to come up to speed with what is going on rather than someone who's worked intimately with window-eyes through it's birth and maturity and now it's cancerous degeneration 'grin', sorry, just having a little fun, don't get too mad at me Tom. let's hope a little chemo therapy and prayer will bring it back and some super smarts like you have. Boy, I'm writing this message with jaws, and notice I'm getting no missed typing characters which has always plagued me with window-eyes. I know I get in a hurry and make mistakes, but I'm a pretty good typer, if a lousy speller, but I get far more mistakes trying to type with window-eyes. No matter what I do, this never went away with any of my hardware. A friend of mine kids me that I'm using too good hardware and I need to use amd chips as he's a fan of amd stuff, it's a friendly little thing we do, well, it's a wonder with all the crap that the pc world has to deal with that any of this stuff works at all, and works as well as it does. Hope my personal observations and candid monologue on my personal experiences doesn't offend anyone, it sure wasn't meantto.My wife is using jaws almost exclusively now as she's more in to the office stuff and it's a know fact that fs has been ahead in that regard for years, much as we wouldn't want to admit it and as much work as gwmicro has done with special tweaksfor office.Where window-eyes still shines is exploring new apps, seeing tool tips, and general exploration especially with the older operating systems. When I was creating session drummer 3 hotspot clicker sets for jaws I kept bouncing back to window-eyes to see what was under themouse.Jaws will do this too, but it's a bit more clunky, window-eyes mouse navigation is more natural and immediate. Well, if I have to make a choice, there will always be demo copies of we around, and maybe we 8 will be the magic bean third time's the charm right? here's hoping. My heart always goes out to the under dog, the little company, and there is still a little bit of that left at gwmicro, not much, but they are marginally better to deal with than FS, I hope all of that doesn't go away. But it's a terrible strain to maintain kindness and patience when you've got a zillion blind folks yammering at you, and more and more pressure put on just a few people, and I understand this, but we dish out our money so we can do our work, and we should have the right to expect results. Well, mnot only have I not gotten results, but what I had to begin with has been lessened, and made more troublesome to use. So what can I say? Probably nothing more of value at this point. blessing everyone. At 10:5 9 AM 11/22/2011, you wrote:It's okay Tom, problems solved. I got a system restore back 2 days, before this disaster; so now I have Wineyes 7.5.1 again. I wasted time trying to install 7.5.1 on top of 7.5.2 and got a message that some hook or the other could not be set, so lost speech at that point, but my wife did the restore. Thanks for your help, Indigo L On 11/22/2011 9:19 AM, Tom Kingston wrote:Make sure Show advanced options is on under the help menu. Open the keyboard node and cursor down once to the voice node. Then tab once for the speak options. I've never had any problem with the backspace key. I just tried Ctrl-Shift-R and got the same result as you. I never noticed because I've never used it in a composition windowbefore.Hth, Tom On 11/22/2011 8:30 AM, Indigo wrote:I just looked in the control panel, and that old setting of speak characters, or whole words as you type seems not to be there any more. Next I'm going to get off the thunderbird.000 set file, because it might be a new one they developed for 7.5.2; and not the one I had developed myself in 7.5.1. I do notice small improvements in thunderbird, the backspace is more reliable, but the old read to end shortcut control+shift+R now only reads the single sentence I'm on, control+shift+and not to the end, as before.. I wish I could type that blithring idiot noise the Three Stooges used, you know, where you make a noise with your mouth as youflip across your lips with a finger. that's how I feel typing in this madness! smile. Indigo L On 11/21/2011 1:59 PM, Roy Shtupler wrote:maybe it's something to do with keyboard settings; will further look. cheers Roy. http://elephant-dolphin.bandcamp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Indigo" <33indigo@xxxxxxxxxxx> To:<realmusicians@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:44 PM Subject: [realmusicians] Re: Running Winize 7.5.2, god HelpMe?Nope, Roy. Same double repeating with and without apps running. It's not just speaking the character I just typed, or the word, but the sentence I'm typing, cumulatively, from the first word to the cursor position, instantly the very nanosecond I pause typing. Where is the setting to turn off speaking of typed words in the W E control panel, do you know? I used to know, but can't find it in this wonderful tree view control panel. Thanks, Indigo L. On 11/21/2011 12:03 PM, Roy Shtupler wrote:does it have a script for ThunderBird? if so , when setting the scripting status to Manual , does this go away? cheers Roy. http://elephant-dolphin.bandcamp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Indigo" <33indigo@xxxxxxxxxxx> To:<realmusicians@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 6:48 PM Subject: [realmusicians] Running Winize 7.5.2, god Help Me?Okay, here I am in the first moments with the new Winize 7.5.2 upgrade, and it's utter chaos in my Thunderbird. It is reading every line twice immediately after I type even a single character, never did that before. I feel like I'm in some huge cave, with an echo repeating every thing I say! When I pressed the enter key to begin the upgrade, I felt just like I do at the doctors, beginning some procedure that could either take the disease away or take my life, and all I can do is submit. smile. Now I gotta go into the tree structure of the once easy Winize control panel and try to find a setting that will shut down this maddening double echo One thing about hearing everything twice, I sure have no doubt about what I've written. smile. I don't know whether to laugh or cry! Indigo LFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web design
