Thanks Chris. Well, all this detuning stuff is something I'll save for later when I haven't got so many other things clogging my little brain. But you're right. I should have listened to my own common sense. Oh well. And so it goes.
Tom On 12/21/2011 4:37 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
I'll have to ask my buddy Terry, he's got one. Well, I wouldn't de-string a guitar and let it sit months, but they're not fragile and you have to take the strings off to string them. A little less or more isn't going to matter. I do dropped d, and dad gad and have even tuned the guitar down a step and a half before, kind of makes the strings really floppy, but with heavier gauges, you can get by with it, and yes, common sense is almost never wrong. There's no magic here, just well engineered wood and steel and glue, precise measurements 'grin'. At 11:59 PM 12/20/2011, you wrote:Woe! Get out of my head, man! Heh! I was just playing a while ago and thought, man, I need a good chair to sit in that doesn't encumber my playing. I didn't come up with anything, but of course I didn't give it much thought either. And regarding detuning? Well you just perfectly illustrated my talking about no one knowing anything. I called my old band mate last week or something before getting the guitar set up and was telling him how hellish trying to play this beast was. While we were chatting I said, hey, I bet if I detune it then fretting will be at least a little more managable. And he said, oh no, dude. You can't do that. It will throw everything out of balance taking the normal tension off of the neck. And that's not good for the guitar. Ah shoot, I thought. Just another one of my stupid ideas. But I should have known he had no clue what he was talking about. I knew he had no technical knowledge when we played together, even though he was a good guitarist. But heck, even I've heard of all these alternative tunings and dropped D tuning. But like most people who know nothing, he was so convincing. I figured there was some super complicated process that had to be followed to the letter in order to mess around with the tuning. Sheesh. I should have listened to my own common sense. Oh well. Is there a name for these guitarist chairs? Thanks, Tom On 12/21/2011 12:21 AM, Chris Belle wrote:Hey, they make special armless chairs just for guitarists, that sort of swivel and glide, but don't encomber you. Another thing that can make the guitar easier to play is to detune it a half step. Easier on the neck and that's also another dimension because you get a deeper tone. A lot of the blues guys do this, tune to e flat. The metal cats did too, so they could hit those high notes singing and get deeper tone out of the guitar. Offcourse, if this messes with your pitch sense, you may not want to do that. But I like to play dropped tuning sometimes. Kind of gives the guitar a more medieval feel. YOu know our standard 440 equal temprament tuning is a relatively new thing historically musically speaking. At 06:44 PM 12/20/2011, you wrote:Well, I think a lot of this is personal preference about what you want to do with the guitar. And for you who's been playing and gigging and recording for so many years the guitar has played many rolls in your life. For me, now that I'm heading on up toward old fartdom, I'm looking for a nice comfortable, easy to play, relaxing and fun instrument. And I've liked very much every recording I've heard of this guitar. I guess my ears are getting tired too because I just don't like a guitar with bite any more; especially an acoustic. And I'm not looking for punch, power, and projection. I'm looking for a relaxing time in my living room or out on my patio during sweet summer nights. Sheesh. Maybe I'll have to get a rocking chair to go with this old fart persona I'm falling into. grin. It's very interesting to this novice what you say about mixing and matching strings. So I'll have to file that away for future consideration. But first I'll worry about learning to play more than 3 chords. Heh! Regarding recording? Well of course I won't be able to resist that, no matter how pathetic my playing is. Guitars have always been an interesting beast to record because like any other instrument you can get so many different sounds out of the same guitar depending on microphone type, count, positioning, the environment, and so on. Who knows. maybe one day I'll send you a recording. Just let me know when you're down and out. that way it'll be a puppy upper and you'll be hysterical by the time my concerto ends. grin. Tom Tom On 12/20/2011 4:35 PM, Chris Belle wrote:Well, there's no doubt that the taylors are easy to play. the thin neck is part of it. To me, it feels wimpy, I like a c neck and something to wrap my long fingers around. I don't have hammer massive hands, but they are long and strong if slim. You've got to think of the physical aspect of it too. Thin strings mean less tone but a lighter easier fret. It also means easier frett buzz because when you pluck hard, the string will extrude more, like a speaker cone. Now that doesn't mean i like a big boomy martin necessarily, but something that feels like an acoustic not an electric. But if you've had finger injury like carpal tunnel, then the taylor is probably a very good option for you. You know, I know exactly what you mean about the feel of a slick expensive baby grand. I like a light touch on a keyboard, if a little heavier one on guitars. My roland piano digital unit which everyone raved about including me has decent action, but it sure ain't like greased lightning when playing fast runs, I know with a real mechanical deal it's hammers and felt and balancing everything just right, but some of those are just so easy to play, like those nose bleed steinways you talk about. I play one of them at the store and I wan to throw my roland in the trash 'grin'. yes, stick bounce, and pedal action are everything, I'm not a drummer, but I've played enough to know exactly what your talking about too. I guess with guitars, what I'm saying is that I don't necessarily want a heavy feel but a substantial feel, and big tone, so I use light to medium strings, never extra light. I think you'll find that super light strings won't give you the tone you desire, there's just not enough metal vibrating. You'll need to have the guitar set up for what ever string you end up liking, and you'll have to experiment to see what works for you. You can mix and match too, have heavier strings on top like starting with a 12 or 13, but have lighter bottom strings, I guess after playing a 12 string for so many years, my hands can handle about anything, but if I don't play for a while and loose my caluses, then my fingers cuss at me 'grin'. Another thing, if the action isn't so low, i can play slide guitar easier, a super low action super easy to fret is impossible to play slide guitar on 'grin'. but diabetes is making my stamina less, my arm gets tired from baring chords, even on my slinky electric strat plus which is easy to squeeze as a drunk cheerleader on prom night, but these old muscles can't do wha they used to. so maybe I'll have to modify my playing habbits eventually too. but so far, the tocs have been my favorite good compromise with price and quality, and the old engineer who broke me in at riverside liked the tocs too, because they record so sweet. See, the guitar when your micing it has a hot spot, usually around the bridge someplace imagine the half circle from the tail to the bridge and your lap, in that area is usually the best place to mic a guitar, some like that 12th frett and body area, but when you find the hotspot you don't have to roll off much low end, and the guitar just sounds so natural and sweet. Taylors of course record well, the good ones anyway, haven't played any of the cheap ones yet, but they sure are hamming on how good they are, and how you don't loose too much, you know how that goes 'grin'. I wish I lived near you and could look at the guitar when you get it. How exciting, this is another big adventure for you. Who knows, you might really get good. then you'll have to record something for us 'grin'. At 02:53 PM 12/20/2011, you wrote:Oh yeah, and here's what probably really sold me on the Taylor; especially when I got them to give me a no questions asked return. I was reading a review on it in one of the guitar magazines. And like every other reviewer he said he had a half dozen other guitars; and of course they were the best of the best. But what he like most about the Taylor was it's playability. He said, I'm a busy guy or a lazy guitarist, depending on who you ask. So, he said, when I've gone a few months without playing the Taylor is the only guitar I can pick up and really play. It's just that effortless. And as I said in another message, I know first hand how much the action on any of these instruments can easily be a make it or break it in the beginning, or, a lingering hassle down the road even if you stick with it. Although it's easy not to even know this if one has never played a much better instrument. And like an experienced guitarist like yourself, one who really knows what they're talking about, I can tell you things that would probably never enter your mind, like this. How many newbie drummers even realize let alone think that there is such a thing as the action on a drum kit? Very few, if any. And the feel of a kit can make a big difference in one's playing. It's the same difference I feel on a 70,000 dollar Steinway when I go on one of my little dream escapades. The sound quality doesn't impress me anywhere near as much as the freedom I feel when playing. It's like taking a sack of potatoes off of my mind's back. The physical aspect of playing just isn't there any more. And even I, the least objective listener, can hear a quantifiable difference in my own playing. It's just much more fluid and controlled, and I immediately fall into the music. If I had a piano like that to play every day I'd spend a lot more time in that elusive zone where I feel like I'm an observer; outside of my own body. I hope you've experienced it and know what I'm talking about. It is musical ecstasy, and something I'm willing to empty my bank account on. Heh! Tom On 12/20/2011 3:14 PM, Tom Kingston wrote:Oh, I'm sure I am paying a premium for the name because it guarantees quality. But I'm not a technician, none of the guitar players I know are, and most of the folks at the dealers; especially chains like Guitar ripoff center, know squat. I even asked the tech who did the setup on the Ibanez I'm using. He used to work for Ovation and said you can't go wrong with a Taylor. Then I specifically asked if the same guitar is out there for half the price. He said that with most brands, yes, but very few of even the high end guitars from other big names are as effortless to play and as stable as a Taylor and babbled on some more about stuff that just flew over my head. Then he said that the other problem with finding the same quality guitar for half the price, regardless of what you're looking for, is it's a real crap shoot because when you go down into the mid range there are only two approaches to making guitars. One makes them look like a 5000 dollar guitar for 500 bucks and uses the cheapest materials for construction, and the other puts all the money into actually building the best guitar they can for that price. The result is that those cheap but high quality guitars look cheap because they didn't spend any money on cosmetics. And the result is that only the real knowledgeable guitarist buys the plane Jane while most folks buy a great looking guitar that falls apart in a few years. And they all sound and feel pretty good when they're new; especially to untrained ears and hands. So I figured I'd take the safe route and make a secure investment because in all the reading I did on the subject one of the things often pointed out about the lower priced high quality guitars is that the quality level and assurance is often not so stable at the end of their assembly lines. So you may get a good one and you may not. Luckily I could afford not to gamble. Tom On 12/20/2011 1:58 PM, Chris Belle wrote:Nothing wrong with going first class. I don' think taylors are the last word in guitars by any means, but they certainly have earned great respect in a lot of important circles. As long as you know a lot of what your paying for is the name. At 12:01 PM 12/20/2011, you wrote:Well, it's kind of a long story. But here's the short version. After learning everything I possibly could about acoustic guitars and playing styles I decided that my goal was finger style. Then I went out and about and discovered that no one really knows about finger style or, like me, that there are even guitars specifically designed for it. So, given the fact that I certainly don't know enough and can't play enough to make an informed decision, and the finger style guitars are difficult to find to say the least, I went back to my local dealer and he was able to order me a Taylor GC7 that I can return if I don't like it. Yeah, it probably sounds crazy, but experience has taught me why 95% of people tackling a new musical instrument give up. I believe that a huge percentage is due to playability. And I know that I no longer have the drive or patience to bully my way through to where I want to go. And I'm very thankful that I have the means to make such a seemingly insane purchase. But I hope that the combination of a seductive feel and gorgeous sound will inspire me and have me grabbing my beloved Taylor, or whatever I ultimately end up with, every chance I get. Tom On 12/20/2011 9:41 AM, Chris Belle wrote:So, what did you end up ordering? At 04:09 AM 12/20/2011, you wrote:Well, be it that I want to play finger style pretty much everything about it is closer to classical. While I decided not to go with nylon strings, the guitar I've got coming is a finger style guitar with the wider neck for that little extra spacing between strings to give your fingers room to work. And it comes with ultra light strings to again make it more workable with finger style. So I'll lean more toward what classical guitarists have to say due to the similarities; e.g. working all 5 fingers on the right hand independently. I just marvel when I hear one person playing one guitar and they're able to put out a bass line, rhythm accompaniment, and the melody to boot. Yeah, I'm probably a big dreamer, but what the heck. I might as well go for the gold. Heh! At least a finger style guitar gives you the option to fall back to picking if you want. It ain't so easy the other way around. Tom On 12/20/2011 3:51 AM, Chris Belle wrote:Yes, well, classical technique is always a good place to start. wish I'd paid more attention when my piano teacher was tryin to pound scales in to my rebellious un-interested head when I was a young bratt 'grin'. Well, you know big egos and guitar players, I bet it's well, I know it's the same thing with programming, or horse racing, or anything, that pretends to be a science or technical, there's a world of options and ways to do things, and sifting through what works and what is non-sense is tricky sometimes. Classical guitar is unique in that the strings are much further apart, and the neck is wider. YOu don't do as much bending on nylon strings as they just don't stretch as much. Notice Willie Nelson doing those half bends on that cat-gut guitar he bangs on all the time, but it works for Willie. Your technically not supposed to use a pick on a classical guitar anyway, but folks do for different effects. Kind of like me using a felt pick on a bass to kind of get that finger sound when I need to play fast runs because my bass playing is typical of a guitar player who picks up a bass, I've learned not to over-play, but the technique is different. YOu get a more round, warm tone with fingers on guitar or bass, but without a pick, you can't get those yummy rhythm tracks I was talking about in the last email. But those great finger players, are amazing, Chet, and all his clan, doyle dykes is someone to check out, a texas boy who makes sparks come off the guitar. I do ok with finger style though it's not my strong suite, but have never mastered using finger picks, the kind you put on to finger play but get a louder brighter sound. Growing your fingernails out is a good compromise, but if you ever get a split nail, your kind of screwed. Finger style is beautiful though, I kind of like to do a hybrid sometimes where I hold the pick but use my middle finger and ring finger and pinkie to do some finger work. That way I can strum and pick both, and them some guitar players only use a thumb pick instead of a traditional flat pick, and can play blazing runs that way. Ah, the guitar world is a vast universe. At 01:34 AM 12/20/2011, you wrote:Hey Chris, Yeah, like I said, what a mind blowing experience it was to feel the difference in that guitar after it was set up. I couldn't believe it had turned that gorilla into a sweet little chimp. Maybe it will get my nephew playing again when I give it back to him. Oh, I know pretty much anything goes as far as how we play. I just want to make sure I don't get started with bad left hand positioning. I dealt with carpel tunnel for about 18 months many years ago and it wasn't fun. But luckily, when I finally figured out what was causing it; something that I can't for the life of me remember now, just making one change cleared it up and I've never felt it again. I understand now that the left hand technique varies widely from guitarist to guitarist. It's just funny how every single contradictory YouTube video I've seen on it has someone explaining in elaborate detail why their way is the absolutely indisputable one and only right way. Although I did find an interesting one yesterday from some internationally renowned classical guitarist explaining hand technique and it really made the most sense of all. Like so many things, it just made perfect sense after she explained it. And while in some ways she was saying the same thing some of the other folks were, she just made it so obvious with such simple examples I couldn't help but say, yeah, that's it. I get it. It was all about simply maintaining as natural a hand position as possible. And I'm sure these classical folks have studied the begeebers out of it. So that's good. Thanks for your offer to help. I really appreciate it. Sure, we'll hook up when things calm down after the holidays. And I'll have a little better grasp on what I'm doing by then too. Oh, and your explanation about capos makes sense now that I hear it in practical terms. But I've got a few weeks to go before I'll be playing Hotel California anyway. Ha! Thanks again, Tom On 12/19/2011 8:38 AM, Chris Belle wrote:hey Tom, yes, you discovered that getting your guitar set-up, at least the first time, is very important. YOu don't necessarily have to do it every year, but you'll know if things atart to drift. YOu know, there are so many different ways of playing the guitar, you know Jeff heely played it in his lap laid down. YOu know, if it works, at least to some extent, it's right. but a good guitar instructor can show you the basics and you can modify from there. there is no really wrong way to play the guitar, every which way your fings can go and are possible to go can make a chord and you can bet somebody has used it. Everything from plane jane chording to putting the thumb over the top of the neck wrapping your hand around and catching that last note that way, or using your right hand to tap harmonics like eddy van halen on the song spanish fly, I'm sure you've heard that, amazing what he did with a classical guitar, anything you can imagine being done with a guitar has probably been done. and to quote your old saying, if it sounds good, it is good. I think though that your thoughts of getting a good local instructor are a wise move. Maybe I can call you on the phone and help you a bit too. Let me get past the christmas stuff 'grin'. At 04:37 AM 12/19/2011, you wrote:Hey folks, Here's a little report on my guitar adventure and a couple of questions. I've been doing endless research on the web for weeks now trying to have at least some idea of what I'm talking about when it comes to guitars. And like every instrument, there's a heck of a lot more to it than we think. Although, sheesh, you'd think I would have learned this by now. Oh well. It's been a very interesting adventure. Next I borrowed my nephew's guitar to give it a shot. He hasn't played it in years. So, just like the last time I did the same I decided after only a few days that it was simply too cruel and inhumane punishment and couldn't imagine how guitarists do it. And yes, I knew it should be set up, but not knowing any more than the concept of the process, which made perfect sense, I couldn't imagine it making any real difference on such a guitar gorilla. I think it's an Ibanez, but I keep forgetting to ask. So, before I gave up again I said, what the heck, and brought it in to be set up. I got it back yesterday. All I can say is, holy guitar tech, batman! It felt like they gave me a new guitar. The difference was absolutely mind blowing. Heck, by last night I was whamming through a chord progression, doing quick mutes, and even tossing in a body slap here and there. I couldn't believe it. And my fingers aren't even sore. I can feel that I've been playing, but I wouldn't call it pain. And previous to this setup it was literally impossible for me to play one chord. It took every last ounce of strength I had in my left hand just to get one out of a dozen attempts to kind of, almost, vaguely sound like some kind of a mangled chord. And after that long 5 or 10 minute session I had to quit because my fingers were screaming so loud I couldn't even hear what I was trying to do. So I'm completely sold on annual setups. And most importantly, I finally have some real inspiration to play the guitar. In practical terms, yesterday was my first real day on the guitar. So if I can get a chord progression going in one day I think I should be able to enjoy the guitar, which is what's most important to me. So, needless to say, I'm pumped about it. Okay, and now for the questions. Right now my main focus is on chord fingering. Of course coming from the piano on which we have a linear playing surface wherein we can play the 3 inversions of any chord from top to bottom through out the entire range of the instrument with nothing more than rotating finger positions, the guitar neck is more abstract to me. But I assume there's got to be some logic to it other than memorizing a thousand specific fingerings. I've watched a ton of YouTube videos, and in one of them the guy referred to the most basic chords by a specific name, which I don't remember now. And I'm not talking about major, minor, sevenths, etc. This was specific to the fret fingering and I assume neck position on the guitar. I know how to figure out most chords, but don't see any logic on how to apply it to the guitar. Of course the range you want to play in as well as preventing your left hand fingers from getting tied up into nasty bundles of knots are obvious. But I'm assuming there's more to go on than that and a trial and error method. I've spent the last couple hours googling blind accessible guitar chord charts and just guitar chord charts, and all I got was a bunch of tab sheets for songs with blind in the title, a bunch of stuff from a band with blind in the name, and a ton of purely visual chord charts. So I'm wondering if anyone has or knows where to get a readable chord note/fingering chart. And I'd also be interested in any links to accessible tab sheets. And just as a final note, boy, there seems to be quite a few really good guitar lessons available on DVD now. But it's hard to tell if they're too tied to the video. Although I must say, I've been pretty impressed at how many folks posting YouTube videos realize that just watching someone play isn't going to do much of anything even for a sighted person. So while they use the cameras as an adjunct to the lesson, they still explain in detail exactly what they're doing with every finger, fret, and string. But of course these are just a pile of little snippets. And conversely, I can't believe how many YouTube videos that say: learn how to play insert song name here, are absolutely nothing but a video of someone playing the tune. Not a single word is spoken. I figure these folks just want to watch themselves. My biggest concern at this point is to get my left hand positioned correctly. I know how easy it is for a beginner to make things work in the wrong way when they're just learning the basics. But then it becomes a very painful reality check when they get to the next level and realize that their incorrect hand position makes getting there impossible, so they have to start all over again and go through the difficult process of trying to break a bad habit and learn a new one. I'm actually considering trying to find a true professional instructor, which usually isn't easy, just to get me started and mainly to watch my every move and make sure that every physical aspect of me and the guitar is correct. I believe this is one of the most important aspects of playing an instrument that is most often unknown, overlooked, or simply ignored because we don't think it's that important. Okay. Enough babbling for now. Thanks for listening. Tomster the bombster, guitarist extraordinaire! Heh!For all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web design
