[ratpack] Re: Miller & Selling Pics
- From: Ray Buck <rbuck@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ratpack@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 01:05:58 -0600
Comments interspersed.
On 5/14/2010 9:55 AM, Larry Knight wrote:
I've had a few thoughts on this banning thing.
1. What are we really talking about "being banned" ? Are we just
talking about Miller not letting us into the big events as locals? Or
are they not going let us into the MRPA events too? We need to be
clear on this before a proposal is made. If we are talking about the
Big events, well we are not just talking about Miller. In fact my
editor was stunned that Miller even let any of us in without a media
outlet sponsoring us. We may have been living on borrowed time at the
first event! I don't think any proposal will help with that. They have
the sanctioning body in charge on those, even if JG does handle the
credentials, he is given a set of rules by ALMS, Grand Am, SBK etc. I
am not sure where to go with that problem. Might be we all meet in the
Club House grandstands and rent bigger lenses. (what an optimist I am
----- not)
It wasn't made clear to me exactly what was happening. But I got the
impression that we weren't actually "banned" but that our credentialling
entity would have to make the request for each event. Don't quote me on
that, but I think that's what he was trying to say.
2. If we are being banned from the smaller events, then I'm pissed,
er.... a.... I mean then maybe a proposal or meeting, or even signing
a legally binding waiver, would help. I once told JG that if he ever
needed any pics form any event, that Jeremy wasn't able to attend, to
call me and I would be happy to help out. I even said I would sign a
waiver that I wouldn't come back at the track for $$$. He more or less
told me they wouldn't come up with a waiver for me to sign, and it was
not worth the hassle to even deal with these kind of small potatos
arrangements, but he did thank me and was very gracious about the
offer. So I am not sure about a waiver either.
It sounds to me like JG just wanted to keep you (and the rest of us) in
a state of limbo, not really knowing whether we'll have credentials from
week to week. I don't think he does this out of malice, but as you
wrote, he's worried about his job and I don't think he wants to commit
to anything, just in case someone says, "Well, John Gardner told me this
would be ok" to Brian or one of the other Grand Poobahs.
3. I agree with you Ray, I don't think JG is the guy to approach with
any type of porposal. Great Guy but I think he is always worried about
his job, since his last name is not Miller (if you have ever worked
for a family company, you can relate) and sticking up for a bunch of
locals, who may have violated a fundamental rule of photography
doesn't bode well for ones non-related-to-the-owner careeer!!
Well said. It explains the place JG's in. And I really have compassion
for him in that "double bind."
4. Brian Miller might just be the guy. But have you ever tried to get
an e-mail through to anyone in authority at any of Miller's
businesses? I've never gotten a reply back and not just from the track
either. I think we would have to draft a letter (yes, on paper) and
send it registered mail, explaining what we would like to do, and how
it would beneift them. We also might want to let JG know what we are
doing so he isn't blind sided and we ruin a relationship with him.
After all, most of us really like him and wouldn't want him to be
pissed off at us. Kind of tricky though, he may tell us not to do it.
Hmmmmmm
It's definitely a thought. But given the argument in the following
paragraph, I'm not sure how far it would get.
5. I have talked to a few racing Orgainzation reps about shooting
for/with them in my breif time as a photog, and I recall one of the
guys lighting up like a roman candle at me saying: "I'll be damned if
I am going to let you just walk right in and make money off all of my
hard work and effort, and I get nothing from it" he went on for a few
minutes more and told me to go to hell. So Miller probably has a
similar thought process about us locals making money off their hard
work (track). Zamboini probably has the right idea, in that we need to
give them value back. Offering a package to participants might be the
best offer we could make. I did like your comment Ray that you put a
link on your webpage to Miller, that could help if we all agreed to do
that. Will smugmug or pbase work with a link like that??
All of us have given Miller's the very best publicity and complimentary
comments. It should be seen as a partnership: when we cover races, we
give them publicity. In return, they should let us do our thing so we
CAN generate that good PR.
I've had that link and good words on my site for a coupla years. JG did
actually thank me once. But it appears to be not only a "but what have
you done for me lately" thing, but a "you're getting us in hot water"
deal. Again, that's how it came across to me. And it seems that we,
the locals, aren't the "guilty party" here.
I dunno if SM or PB allow links, although it looks like they do. It's
worth a shot, at least.
6. I have sort of given up on making money at this photog thing, at
least much money. I still plan on casually approaching some local
racers and the working with the NASA organizers once a year, but
that's about it for me. It is just not worth the hassle to me. I am
not a salesman, I hate it. If I am approached, well that is a
different story, but to go out and hussle.........Naaa thanks anyway,
there is not enough $$ involved. I am a motorsports fan first and a
photographer second. So if we are banned, I'll just shoot from the
stands. I will be there anyway to watch motorsports even if I have to
pay to get in. Besides I have had skin canser twice, and there is
shade in them there stands.
I put some thought into this thing tonite. I've been doing well, moving
along with my business plan...but it's come up against a coupla brick
walls: big business and other photogs protecting their turf like a pit
bull.
I'm starting to believe the theory that sez if ya got something, there's
someone or something that wants to take it away. As we've gotten to be
better photographers, we've started moving up the ladder to the point
that we're running into entities that don't want anyone to make any
money unless they get a portion of it...or all of it plus Draconian sums
asked for in harassment lawsuits.
Kepner told me that the crashes and blown motors that Mark Rebilas
shoots at NHRA tracks are "vetted" by NHRA and if he were to sell a shot
of something the NHRA didn't want seen, he'd be banned for life. Again,
turf war and control (read: money) issues.
I'm thinking that maybe I otta just concentrate on Salt Flats
photography and the hell with the cruise nites, car shows and local
racers. They're all to damned cheap to buy anything and if, by some
brief moment of spending, they might actually want to part with a coupla
bucks, then there's someone waiting in the shadows (or maybe looking
over your shoulder) who wants a part of it...if not all of it.
7. Maybe we as a group need another lunch to talk more about this face
to face. E-mail is great and all but not as good as togetherness.
That would work for me. I'm free up until 5:30 next Saturday. I'd be
real happy to get together. Or even if it's at the Ace Cafe...doesn't
matter.
I think I'm at a place where I have to make some decisions about where I
want this thing to go.
Wake up!!!! I'm almost done now.
Zamboni, I think you could be right about waterfalls, they hold some
interest to me. In order for me to photograph things, I need to be
really excited by what I see come through the lens. Motorsports, my
family, oceans, sunsets, and beautiful women are about it. The
beautiful women thing is a real problem for my wife, so scratch most
of that, Track Girls do get a small waiver though. I shot a Jazz game
from the stands a few weeks ago. Even if I had a bigger lens and
credentials, not interesting enough for me, I was bored with it, and
found my lens aiming at the Jazz dancers more than the Jazz players,
which is not good since I was sitting next to my wife!! Maybe
waterfalls will work too. I may try some high school track meets, they
seem like fun.
I understand Mr. Z's concept. I enjoy getting a good photo of just
about anything. But I'm much more of a gear head who enjoys
photographing cars/bikes/trucks...vehicles in general, especially if
they're bright and shiny and/or make loud noises. Right at this moment,
I'm not interested in pursuing any other lines of photography unless I
put 100 percent into it....like doing photos of old barns and
sheepherders' shacks that are in various states of disrepair. I'm
attracted to those as subjects. 'Course there would always be the
property owner who wants his slice of the pie...the farmer who hasn't
been to that barn in 20 years, but as soon as he sees someone with a
camera, he's gonna be right there with his hand out, wanting something
for nothing.
Ray, maybe you learn some day to never ask me for feedback, see what
happens (humor)
Nope this, was great, well thought out stuff. It's very
thought-provoking and has me mentally rushing off in all directions
trying to make sense of it all. But underlying it is the concept of the
little guy (that's us) coming up against the big business monoliths.
I dunno. I'm tired and I wanna go to sleep. So I will.
But before I hit the sack, I'll give a web address for y'all to peruse:
http://www.nmpaonline.com/ The National Motorsports Press Association.
$35 a year to join. But I don't know what real benefit it would be to
us. It's something to look into, tho.
r
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