[ratpack] Re: Miller & Selling Pics
- From: Michael Wells <mcwellsphoto@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: ratpack@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 11:18:42 -0600
I think it was Larry who once mentioned talking to a photographer at a race
and how he had lost his love for the event because of the business it had
become. Right now I'm excited about shooting cars so I'm all gung-ho about
things that go on out at Miller. I'd hate to get to the point where I don't
look forward to attending an event cause I have to shoot it as opposed to
wanting to shoot it.
I shot 3 weddings for friends as a wedding gift, and I explained to them
that they were getting what they paid for. So it was then that I decided
that I didn't want to try and make a living as a wedding photographer. I'd
like to try and find a way to make photography a career but that doesn't
look too likely. After talking to Steve Cabana at last years NASA race it
sounds like maybe we should be approaching the groups like SCCA or NASA on a
local level, Steve is in real tight with the NASA organization and is at
most of the events for the west coast chapter. Now as much as I'd like to, I
don't have the means to travel around the Mountain West with either the SCCA
or NASA groups so we're limited to what goes on at Miller.
I still think there would be a lot of the karting folks that would buy
packages of their kids on the track but if we want to propose photography
packages to people racing at Miller either on the big track or the karting
track although we'd probably have to offer Miller some kind of kick back on
everything sold. It would be cool if the track would hand out a flier to all
of the racers at the track that photographs would be available to them if
they so wish. I mean Disney Land does it for people riding their rides. If
we sat down and put together a reasonable offer to make photographs
available to the racers with a kickback to the track then maybe we can keep
the access we enjoy now and maybe even have preferential treatment to the
visiting organizations like the ALMS guys when it come to getting
credentials sponsored by Miller. It would not be a bad idea though to talk
to JG a bit to get his feelings and maybe even his buy-in on something like
this, and like Larr said you don't want him to get blind-sided by something
so getting some input from him might not be a bad idea, we want him on our
side.
Just throwing it out there to see what sticks. Again I agree with Larr (I
must be temporarily insane) that we should probable sit down over lunch and
discuss this, I'm jonesing for some good rootbeer.
Zamboni
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Larry Knight <carpixguy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I've had a few thoughts on this banning thing.
>
> 1. What are we really talking about "being banned" ? Are we just talking
> about Miller not letting us into the big events as locals? Or are they not
> going let us into the MRPA events too? We need to be clear on this before a
> proposal is made. If we are talking about the Big events, well we are not
> just talking about Miller. In fact my editor was stunned that Miller even
> let any of us in without a media outlet sponsoring us. We may have been
> living on borrowed time at the first event! I don't think any proposal will
> help with that. They have the sanctioning body in charge on those, even if
> JG does handle the credentials, he is given a set of rules by ALMS, Grand
> Am, SBK etc. I am not sure where to go with that problem. Might be we all
> meet in the Club House grandstands and rent bigger lenses. (what an optimist
> I am ----- not)
>
> 2. If we are being banned from the smaller events, then I'm pissed, er....
> a.... I mean then maybe a proposal or meeting, or even signing a legally
> binding waiver, would help. I once told JG that if he ever needed any pics
> form any event, that Jeremy wasn't able to attend, to call me and I would be
> happy to help out. I even said I would sign a waiver that I wouldn't come
> back at the track for $$$. He more or less told me they wouldn't come up
> with a waiver for me to sign, and it was not worth the hassle to even deal
> with these kind of small potatos arrangements, but he did thank me and was
> very gracious about the offer. So I am not sure about a waiver either.
>
> 3. I agree with you Ray, I don't think JG is the guy to approach with any
> type of porposal. Great Guy but I think he is always worried about his job,
> since his last name is not Miller (if you have ever worked for a family
> company, you can relate) and sticking up for a bunch of locals, who may have
> violated a fundamental rule of photography doesn't bode well for ones
> non-related-to-the-owner careeer!!
>
> 4. Brian Miller might just be the guy. But have you ever tried to get an
> e-mail through to anyone in authority at any of Miller's businesses? I've
> never gotten a reply back and not just from the track either. I think we
> would have to draft a letter (yes, on paper) and send it registered mail,
> explaining what we would like to do, and how it would beneift them. We also
> might want to let JG know what we are doing so he isn't blind sided and we
> ruin a relationship with him. After all, most of us really like him and
> wouldn't want him to be pissed off at us. Kind of tricky though, he may tell
> us not to do it. Hmmmmmm
>
> 5. I have talked to a few racing Orgainzation reps about shooting for/with
> them in my breif time as a photog, and I recall one of the guys lighting up
> like a roman candle at me saying: "I'll be damned if I am going to let you
> just walk right in and make money off all of my hard work and effort, and I
> get nothing from it" he went on for a few minutes more and told me to go to
> hell. So Miller probably has a similar thought process about us locals
> making money off their hard work (track). Zamboini probably has the right
> idea, in that we need to give them value back. Offering a package
> to participants might be the best offer we could make. I did like your
> comment Ray that you put a link on your webpage to Miller, that could help
> if we all agreed to do that. Will smugmug or pbase work with a link like
> that??
>
> 6. I have sort of given up on making money at this photog thing, at least
> much money. I still plan on casually approaching some local racers and the
> working with the NASA organizers once a year, but that's about it for me. It
> is just not worth the hassle to me. I am not a salesman, I hate it. If I am
> approached, well that is a different story, but to go out and
> hussle.........Naaa thanks anyway, there is not enough $$ involved. I am a
> motorsports fan first and a photographer second. So if we are banned, I'll
> just shoot from the stands. I will be there anyway to watch motorsports even
> if I have to pay to get in. Besides I have had skin canser twice, and there
> is shade in them there stands.
>
> 7. Maybe we as a group need another lunch to talk more about this face to
> face. E-mail is great and all but not as good as togetherness.
>
> Wake up!!!! I'm almost done now.
>
> Zamboni, I think you could be right about waterfalls, they hold some
> interest to me. In order for me to photograph things, I need to be really
> excited by what I see come through the lens. Motorsports, my family, oceans,
> sunsets, and beautiful women are about it. The beautiful women thing is a
> real problem for my wife, so scratch most of that, Track Girls do get a
> small waiver though. I shot a Jazz game from the stands a few weeks ago.
> Even if I had a bigger lens and credentials, not interesting enough for me,
> I was bored with it, and found my lens aiming at the Jazz dancers more than
> the Jazz players, which is not good since I was sitting next to my wife!!
> Maybe waterfalls will work too. I may try some high school track meets, they
> seem like fun.
>
> Ray, maybe you learn some day to never ask me for feedback, see what
> happens (humor)
> later
> Larr
>
>
>
>
--
Michael Wells
MCWells Photography
mcwellsphoto@xxxxxxxxx
801-850-7279
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