[python] Re: frame geometry and pivot angle
- From: UH-13P <uh13p@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
If you search on Molt Taylor Mini Imp you will find a paper airplane for a real
person to fly. The paper planes have been tested now for 30 years. It might
just be possible to build the paper python or at least some major portions of
it from "Taylor Paper Glass". Here is a link to the process.
http://www.mini-imp.com/ ; There is a further link to the process on that page.
________________________________
From: Vi Vuong <vi_vuong@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:17 AM
Subject: [python] Re: frame geometry and pivot angle
Patrick
Clarification on paper python, I meant a small model say 10cm wheel base
Sure I will try moving the pivot back to COG
Thx
Vi
On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:08 AM, Patrick van Gompel
<patrick_van_gompel@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hey Vi, thanks for sharing. You never stop to surprise me with your new bikes
;-)
Haha yes, you are sitting on the 'wrong' side of the bike. You are sitting on
the non-fixed side, whereas on a normal Python you sit on the fixed side.
For your trike I think your pivot direction is correct, though I wonder about
the position. The Python 'guidelines' say that the pivot axis should go through
the center between the riders hips to minimize PSI. It seems your pivot should
be like 20cm more to the rear. It would also help with less body weight leaning
into the corner. A pivot lock seem kinda dangerous to me and you might not need
it if the pivot is optimized ;-) More testing? :-)
Haha, a paper Python! It would need quite a bit of epoxy to make is drivable.
Patrick
________________________________
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:23:31 -0700
From: vi_vuong@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [python] Re: frame geometry and pivot angle
To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Patrick,
Yes, pivot does move up but rider falls down (leaning). I do miss the self
centering effect, and feel like I am sitting on the wrong side of the trike.
However, for a tadpole with pivot pointing backward like pythons, the rider
would lean the wrong way, very unnatural...
Well, the trike started out with RWS, which was scary with direct steering.
Then I moved the pivot up front to try out leaning. It does seems arkward
making a u-turn, but a normal turn just need a little bit of leaning, and feel
quite natural after a while. Some sort of speed-variable pivot would be nice
:) Going fast is another story - I have to lock my arms to reduce steering
influence; here a locking disc at the pivot would be super nice, but maybe
getting too complicated (what happens to hands free). I may build a RWD
leaning tadpole to compare steering influence. A really nice things about
leaning design is that the track can be narrower, and maybe higher seat.
Besides the leaning experiment, I started making a wire-frame velo shell and
got a little carried away with abstract painting. Not sure what to do with the
thing now, but I may participate in
the http://fbuc.org/2012/03/fbuc-figure-8-track-pedal-car-racing/ if this thing
qualifies (w/ 4 wheels). Meanwhile I started a 2nd FWD leaning folding
tadpole, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rkPKDMDk9E, but the axle is rework...
So adding more wheels should be reserved for necessity (safety, stability,
speed, cargo etc). It would be tough to beat the experience on python bike
cruising. By the way, your video makes it much easier to understand the paper
pivot concept. How about an actual python model made out of paper :)?
Cheers,
Vi
>________________________________
>From: Patrick van Gompel <patrick_van_gompel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:50 AM
>Subject: [python] Re: frame geometry and pivot angle
>
>
>Yes Vi, you have a nice example of a fixed front. I just wondered: if you
>steer that bike, does the pivot point go up? I would guess yes, but I think
>your upper body is falling into the corner and making the overall CoG go down.
>What is your experience with your bike?
>Are you still experimenting with this bike? I think the pivot point should be
>more to the rear (for more body rise when cornering and less pedal steer). Not
>sure about the pivot angle though... seems you need to lean quite a bit for a
>tight corner, right?
>
>Patrick
>
>
>
>________________________________
>Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:11:41 -0700
>From: vi_vuong@xxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [python] Re: frame geometry and pivot angle
>To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>I have a video showing that front \ back configuration is not self
>stabilizing, and requires arms to stay upright, at
>~1:30sec, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHJqeHZEicY ;
>
>
>Vi
>
>
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