[pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium?

It will probably move from neutral to cool tones. If you have the
time, try it at a low dilution, 1:20 and for a minute at a time. Pull
the print, put it into water for a few minutes and see what happens.
Keep doing this to see if you can work a split on it. It's similar to
how I work up splits on warm tone paper.

It's the best I can suggest.

Robert Hall
www.RobertHall.com
www.RobertHall.com/workshops
www.facebook.com/robert.g.hall




On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Eric Nelson <emanmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> That's a good way to work.  Another is to charge an hourly rate plus
> expenses to 'explore' the options if you don't have samples.  Sanity is
> important. :)
>
> In my case, the lab's client is being dealt with by the counter person who's
> worked in darkrooms for years.  He's been shown a sample print and I have
> not, so I can't give any input or get a feel for what's expected.
>
> My involvement as their supplier, aka B&W printer/processor, is kept secret
> from their clients as well as the fact that they no longer have a wet
> darkroom.  They farm out the work whether it be color or B&W and take a cut
> for steering the work our way.  They also deal w/amateur shooters, mom's who
> bring their high school kid's film in that's late for their project and
> start yelling at them when they are told what the rush charges are going to
> be.  I'm glad to miss out on that and they also have to distill the info
> they receive, which has got to be painstaking,  into something I can
> interpret for printing.  My sanity is saved by them on probably every job
> they take in for me.
>
> So my instructions are literally 'selenium toned- try as best as possible
> for split tone'.  I told the counter guy that I don't know if there will be
> any split in the tone from neutral to cold.
> So I guess my question would be what dilution would get me close or just
> change the color the most which we know will be subtle and was explained to
> the client as well?  There's no mention of using a premium warm toned paper,
> just plain ol' multigrade.  1:4?  1:9?
>
> e
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Eric Neilsen Photo <ej@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 5:24 PM
>
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium?
>
> eric, This is what I have done in the past with that type of situation. Take
> a print and tone it several different way on to the papers that they and you
> agree are the standard papers. Once those prints are delivered , those are
> the tones that give a good indication, but not an exact indication that the
> customer receives. PERIOD.  It is only to preserve my sanity. Too many
> mouths between too many ears and you get a higher chance of disappointment.
>
> That being said, my regular dilution is 1:9 for quick black impact and
> little color shift. What are you supposed to split using only one toner?
>   Can you use a 1:9 and then come back with a 1:20? well yeah, does it
> split? ….
>
> Eric Neilsen
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
> skype me with ejprinter
> Let's Talk Photography
>
> ________________________________
> From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Nelson
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 4:10 PM
> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium?
>
> That's what I've been reading as well re:the touchy feely part but being the
> supplier in this chain my rate is lower than normal and so is my motivation
> to pull out all the stops and burn through $4+ a sheet 16x20 paper to
> experiment for someone I have no contact with.  That and all the reading
> (i.e. research) I'd have to do to find a good archival combination.
> If they'd come to me directly I'd have proposed something to get what they
> are looking for done, but my marching orders are to try for a "split tone"
> using just selenium.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Hall <robert.g.hall@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:28 PM
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium?
>
> Split would be described -- at least in my mind -- as a tonal shift in
> the highlights and one in the shadows.
>
> Selenium, for example works first in the shadows and works it's way
> up. Gold and sulfides can work from the top -- or highlights -- down.
>
> Order of application is important. Too much selenium and trying to
> bleach it back a bit for sulfides might not work as the selenium has
> had time to affect all the silver in the print.
>
> You might try a weakend bleach, say half strength, for 20 seconds,
> then a good wash, then a sulfide toning, then let it sit in selenium
> for a couple minutes at say, 1:9.
>
> This is very touchy-feely due to the difference in papers and what
> toners you use. But it's a good jumping off point.
>
> In case you have a bit more control next time.. ask for warm tone
> paper as it accepts toning -- in my opinion -- better than cold tones,
> at least it is more responsive.
>
> Robert Hall
> www.RobertHall.com
> www.RobertHall.com/workshops
> www.facebook.com/robert.g.hall
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Eric Nelson <emanmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Ya, exactly.
>> I think the client is expecting some difference in color from the use of
>> one
>> toner as opposed to using 2 as one might expect.  I also think there's a
>> difference between split and combination toning with the effect of a
>> combination tone being a 2 color effect like sepia and iron or the like.
>> e
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Robert Hall <robert.g.hall@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 2:35 PM
>> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium?
>>
>> Split it with what?
>>
>> You might get some results with sulphides and selenium.
>>
>> Robert Hall
>> www.RobertHall.com
>> www.RobertHall.com/workshops
>> www.facebook.com/robert.g.hall
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Eric Nelson <emanmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> I've been asked by a lab that I'm a sub-contractor with to do split tones
>>> w/selenium on cold toned FB paper.
>>>
>>> Is that possible?  I'm guessing a strong selenium bath of 1:9-ish.  The
>>> lab
>>> I'm doing this for has spent way too much time talking to this client and
>>> they kind of guessed the guys doesn't know what he's asking for.  My
>>> thinking is that a stronger bath with cause the toner to quickly adhere
>>> to
>>> the shadows and mids while leaving the lighter tones and highlights
>>> unaffected.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>
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