It will probably move from neutral to cool tones. If you have the time, try it at a low dilution, 1:20 and for a minute at a time. Pull the print, put it into water for a few minutes and see what happens. Keep doing this to see if you can work a split on it. It's similar to how I work up splits on warm tone paper. It's the best I can suggest. Robert Hall www.RobertHall.com www.RobertHall.com/workshops www.facebook.com/robert.g.hall On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Eric Nelson <emanmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > That's a good way to work. Another is to charge an hourly rate plus > expenses to 'explore' the options if you don't have samples. Sanity is > important. :) > > In my case, the lab's client is being dealt with by the counter person who's > worked in darkrooms for years. He's been shown a sample print and I have > not, so I can't give any input or get a feel for what's expected. > > My involvement as their supplier, aka B&W printer/processor, is kept secret > from their clients as well as the fact that they no longer have a wet > darkroom. They farm out the work whether it be color or B&W and take a cut > for steering the work our way. They also deal w/amateur shooters, mom's who > bring their high school kid's film in that's late for their project and > start yelling at them when they are told what the rush charges are going to > be. I'm glad to miss out on that and they also have to distill the info > they receive, which has got to be painstaking, into something I can > interpret for printing. My sanity is saved by them on probably every job > they take in for me. > > So my instructions are literally 'selenium toned- try as best as possible > for split tone'. I told the counter guy that I don't know if there will be > any split in the tone from neutral to cold. > So I guess my question would be what dilution would get me close or just > change the color the most which we know will be subtle and was explained to > the client as well? There's no mention of using a premium warm toned paper, > just plain ol' multigrade. 1:4? 1:9? > > e > > > ________________________________ > From: Eric Neilsen Photo <ej@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 5:24 PM > > Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium? > > eric, This is what I have done in the past with that type of situation. Take > a print and tone it several different way on to the papers that they and you > agree are the standard papers. Once those prints are delivered , those are > the tones that give a good indication, but not an exact indication that the > customer receives. PERIOD. It is only to preserve my sanity. Too many > mouths between too many ears and you get a higher chance of disappointment. > > That being said, my regular dilution is 1:9 for quick black impact and > little color shift. What are you supposed to split using only one toner? > Can you use a 1:9 and then come back with a 1:20? well yeah, does it > split? …. > > Eric Neilsen > Eric Neilsen Photography > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 > Dallas, TX 75226 > > www.ericneilsenphotography.com > skype me with ejprinter > Let's Talk Photography > > ________________________________ > From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Nelson > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 4:10 PM > To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium? > > That's what I've been reading as well re:the touchy feely part but being the > supplier in this chain my rate is lower than normal and so is my motivation > to pull out all the stops and burn through $4+ a sheet 16x20 paper to > experiment for someone I have no contact with. That and all the reading > (i.e. research) I'd have to do to find a good archival combination. > If they'd come to me directly I'd have proposed something to get what they > are looking for done, but my marching orders are to try for a "split tone" > using just selenium. > > ________________________________ > From: Robert Hall <robert.g.hall@xxxxxxxxx> > To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:28 PM > Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium? > > Split would be described -- at least in my mind -- as a tonal shift in > the highlights and one in the shadows. > > Selenium, for example works first in the shadows and works it's way > up. Gold and sulfides can work from the top -- or highlights -- down. > > Order of application is important. Too much selenium and trying to > bleach it back a bit for sulfides might not work as the selenium has > had time to affect all the silver in the print. > > You might try a weakend bleach, say half strength, for 20 seconds, > then a good wash, then a sulfide toning, then let it sit in selenium > for a couple minutes at say, 1:9. > > This is very touchy-feely due to the difference in papers and what > toners you use. But it's a good jumping off point. > > In case you have a bit more control next time.. ask for warm tone > paper as it accepts toning -- in my opinion -- better than cold tones, > at least it is more responsive. > > Robert Hall > www.RobertHall.com > www.RobertHall.com/workshops > www.facebook.com/robert.g.hall > > > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Eric Nelson <emanmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Ya, exactly. >> I think the client is expecting some difference in color from the use of >> one >> toner as opposed to using 2 as one might expect. I also think there's a >> difference between split and combination toning with the effect of a >> combination tone being a 2 color effect like sepia and iron or the like. >> e >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Robert Hall <robert.g.hall@xxxxxxxxx> >> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 2:35 PM >> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium? >> >> Split it with what? >> >> You might get some results with sulphides and selenium. >> >> Robert Hall >> www.RobertHall.com >> www.RobertHall.com/workshops >> www.facebook.com/robert.g.hall >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Eric Nelson <emanmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> I've been asked by a lab that I'm a sub-contractor with to do split tones >>> w/selenium on cold toned FB paper. >>> >>> Is that possible? I'm guessing a strong selenium bath of 1:9-ish. The >>> lab >>> I'm doing this for has spent way too much time talking to this client and >>> they kind of guessed the guys doesn't know what he's asking for. My >>> thinking is that a stronger bath with cause the toner to quickly adhere >>> to >>> the shadows and mids while leaving the lighter tones and highlights >>> unaffected. >>> >>> Eric >> >> ============================================================================================================To >> unsubscribe from this list, go to www.freelists.org and logon to your >> account (the same e-mail address and password you set-up when you >> subscribed,) and unsubscribe from there. >> >> > ============================================================================================================To > unsubscribe from this list, go to www.freelists.org and logon to your > account (the same e-mail address and password you set-up when you > subscribed,) and unsubscribe from there. > > > ============================================================================================================To unsubscribe from this list, go to www.freelists.org and logon to your account (the same e-mail address and password you set-up when you subscribed,) and unsubscribe from there.