That's a good way to work. Another is to charge an hourly rate plus expenses to 'explore' the options if you don't have samples. Sanity is important. :) In my case, the lab's client is being dealt with by the counter person who's worked in darkrooms for years. He's been shown a sample print and I have not, so I can't give any input or get a feel for what's expected. My involvement as their supplier, aka B&W printer/processor, is kept secret from their clients as well as the fact that they no longer have a wet darkroom. They farm out the work whether it be color or B&W and take a cut for steering the work our way. They also deal w/amateur shooters, mom's who bring their high school kid's film in that's late for their project and start yelling at them when they are told what the rush charges are going to be. I'm glad to miss out on that and they also have to distill the info they receive, which has got to be painstaking, into something I can interpret for printing. My sanity is saved by them on probably every job they take in for me. So my instructions are literally 'selenium toned- try as best as possible for split tone'. I told the counter guy that I don't know if there will be any split in the tone from neutral to cold. So I guess my question would be what dilution would get me close or just change the color the most which we know will be subtle and was explained to the client as well? There's no mention of using a premium warm toned paper, just plain ol' multigrade. 1:4? 1:9? e ________________________________ From: Eric Neilsen Photo <ej@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 5:24 PM Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium? eric, This is what I have done in the past with that type of situation. Take a print and tone it several different way on to the papers that they and you agree are the standard papers. Once those prints are delivered , those are the tones that give a good indication, but not an exact indication that the customer receives. PERIOD. It is only to preserve my sanity. Too many mouths between too many ears and you get a higher chance of disappointment. That being said, my regular dilution is 1:9 for quick black impact and little color shift. What are you supposed to split using only one toner? Can you use a 1:9 and then come back with a 1:20? well yeah, does it split? …. Eric Neilsen Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 www.ericneilsenphotography.com skype me with ejprinter Let's Talk Photography ________________________________ From:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Nelson Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 4:10 PM To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium? That's what I've been reading as well re:the touchy feely part but being the supplier in this chain my rate is lower than normal and so is my motivation to pull out all the stops and burn through $4+ a sheet 16x20 paper to experiment for someone I have no contact with. That and all the reading (i.e. research) I'd have to do to find a good archival combination. If they'd come to me directly I'd have proposed something to get what they are looking for done, but my marching orders are to try for a "split tone" using just selenium. ________________________________ From:Robert Hall <robert.g.hall@xxxxxxxxx> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:28 PM Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium? Split would be described -- at least in my mind -- as a tonal shift in the highlights and one in the shadows. Selenium, for example works first in the shadows and works it's way up. Gold and sulfides can work from the top -- or highlights -- down. Order of application is important. Too much selenium and trying to bleach it back a bit for sulfides might not work as the selenium has had time to affect all the silver in the print. You might try a weakend bleach, say half strength, for 20 seconds, then a good wash, then a sulfide toning, then let it sit in selenium for a couple minutes at say, 1:9. This is very touchy-feely due to the difference in papers and what toners you use. But it's a good jumping off point. In case you have a bit more control next time.. ask for warm tone paper as it accepts toning -- in my opinion -- better than cold tones, at least it is more responsive. Robert Hall www.RobertHall.com www.RobertHall.com/workshops www.facebook.com/robert.g.hall On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Eric Nelson <emanmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Ya, exactly. > I think the client is expecting some difference in color from the use of one > toner as opposed to using 2 as one might expect. I also think there's a > difference between split and combination toning with the effect of a > combination tone being a 2 color effect like sepia and iron or the like. > e > > ________________________________ > From: Robert Hall <robert.g.hall@xxxxxxxxx> > To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 2:35 PM > Subject: [pure-silver] Re: split tones on cold tone paper w/selenium? > > Split it with what? > > You might get some results with sulphides and selenium. > > Robert Hall > www.RobertHall.com > www.RobertHall.com/workshops > www.facebook.com/robert.g.hall > > > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Eric Nelson <emanmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> I've been asked by a lab that I'm a sub-contractor with to do split tones >> w/selenium on cold toned FB paper. >> >> Is that possible? I'm guessing a strong selenium bath of 1:9-ish. The >> lab >> I'm doing this for has spent way too much time talking to this client and >> they kind of guessed the guys doesn't know what he's asking for. My >> thinking is that a stronger bath with cause the toner to quickly adhere to >> the shadows and mids while leaving the lighter tones and highlights >> unaffected. >> >> Eric > ============================================================================================================To > unsubscribe from this list, go to www.freelists.org and logon to your > account (the same e-mail address and password you set-up when you > subscribed,) and unsubscribe from there. > > ============================================================================================================To unsubscribe from this list, go to www.freelists.org and logon to your account (the same e-mail address and password you set-up when you subscribed,) and unsubscribe from there.