I would like to emphasize that this info is hearsay on my part, albeit very close to the ground. IF true, it wouldn't be the first time that public denials have been made contradicting fact. But I don't have personal inside info at first hand level on this, only second hand so Ray is correct to suggest that this should be taken into account. Tim http://www.worldbookoflithprinting.com <http://www.worldbookoflithprinting.com/> _____ From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Badcock Sent: 21 June 2005 12:17 To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [pure-silver] Re: The Oriental Rumor Tim and others, this claim regarding Oriental Seagull papers you make is rather close to home for me. I previously documented my woes with Oriental seagull regarding fogging and mottling on this list, however it was also encouraging to note that Ryuji mentioned that he found no problems when testing the same paper (and batch) that I have been testing (see //www.freelists.org/archives/pure-silver/04-2005/msg00276.html); this is another reason why I am cautious about making any assertions yet. I can probably go into more details when some more independent comparative testing is undertaken since I'd rather be certain of the facts before claiming too much. If what you say is true Tim, then its a sad state of affairs if either - the employee who answered Ray's phone query at Oriental is being kept in the dark and thereby being encouraged to unknowingly yet blatantly lie on behalf of their boss, or - the employee is blatantly lying (and knows it) and their attitude is encouraged. regards Peter Badcock On 6/21/05, Tim Rudman <ps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Ray, The information came to me from perhaps the most respected professional importer supplier in London, with longstanding professional and personal contacts with both. Such arrangements are not always publicly admitted outside the trade for a variety of good reasons of course and many of us have past experiences of such things happening, so not too much surprises me. Do a test with Oriental GF and see how dissimilar it is to Oriental papers and how close to Ilford. This proves nothing on its own of course! Tim