[pure-silver] Re: Direct toners- the Viradon mystery

When I put my viradon toned pictures (normally 1 - 2 min. with Agfa MCC) in a 10% sodium sulphite stopbath, toning stops immediately, but I also noted that toning starts again when I wash my prints. I don't know why it happens, but it seems that a small amount of Viradon is hiding in the paper and starts to work again when the sulphite is washed away. I now put my print in a first stopbath for 5 min. and then transfer it to a second bath. I keep it there until I have processed all my prints, discard the Viradon bath, ventilate the room until the smell has gone and only than start washing. At least it helped me, no aftertoning anymore.

Walter

janet ness wrote:
Thanks for the reply,
I found that the used toner does tone, after filtering out the gunk, but maybe it's not toning properly. Even with a 10% sodium sulfite stop bath, the toning (2 minutes) still seems over-done by the time the prints wash and dry. Maybe it's a matter of knowing when to stop, before the prints look like they are toned enough. Or maybe the toning would stop sooner if the toner were fresh.
Janet Ness

    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* wjjk <mailto:wjjk@xxxxxx>
    *To:* pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    *Sent:* Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:03 AM
    *Subject:* [pure-silver] Re: Direct toners- the Viradon mystery

    During storage solid sulfur is formed due to decomposition of the
    polysulphide ion. In other words the active ingredient itself is lost.

    Walter

janet ness wrote:
> A related question: is it possible to reuse Viradon toner? I
notice
> that used Viradon acquires solid, waxy chunks of something after
> storage. I've been filtering and reusing it, but threw it out
when it
> started to look like orange juice. Is anything lost in filtering?
> > Janet Ness
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Knoppow <mailto:dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:15 AM
> *Subject:* [pure-silver] Re: Direct toners- the Viradon mystery
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Woodhouse <chris.woodhouse@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:chris.woodhouse@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:chris.woodhouse@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> Sent: Jun 26, 2005 1:56 AM
> To: "pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>"
> <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> Subject: [pure-silver] Direct toners- the Viradon mystery
>
> Until recently I have always used odorless sepia toners, normally
> indirectly, following a short bleach. Having seen some prints of
> Ralph's I
> thought I would try Viradon 'new' for the first time and was
amazed
> at how
> it reacted in the wash. I know all that stuff about using a
> Bisulphate stop
> bath, but what I was wondering is it goes against everything
I thought I
> knew about chemistry. I always thought that chemical activity
goes
> down with
> lowered concentration. Watching through the side of my archival
> washer, the
> print continues to get browner and browner, changing even
after 20
> minutes
> gentle washing.
>
> I'm intrigued, what is the mechanism that allows it to
continually
> change
> colour when the concentration must be extremely dilute? I
thought for a
> laugh I would put another print into extremely dilute Viradon
- nothing
> seems to happen. What am I missing? (polite responses only!)
>
> --
> Regards Chris Woodhouse
>
>
> This is a well known characteristic of Polysulfide toners.
They
> have the strange property of toning faster as they are
exhausted or
> diluted. I don't know the chemical mechanism. A pretty strong
sodium
> sulfite bath (10%) acts as a stop bath but the print should be
> washed quickly especially at first. If the toner is dilute
enough
> it can result in a peach colored stain. Kodak Brown Toner behaves
> the same way. Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent stock will work
instead of
> the sulfite bath (since its buffered sulfite at about 10%)
but is an
> expensive substitute.
>
> How extremely dilute was the experiment?
>
>
>
> --
> Richard Knoppow
> dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Los Angeles, CA, USA
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