[pure-silver] Re: Direct toners- the Viradon mystery

Thanks for the reply,
I found that the used toner does tone, after filtering out the gunk, but maybe 
it's not toning properly.  Even with a 10% sodium sulfite stop bath, the toning 
(2 minutes) still seems over-done by the time the prints wash and dry.  Maybe 
it's a matter of knowing when to stop, before the prints look like they are 
toned enough.  Or maybe the toning would stop sooner if the toner were fresh.

Janet Ness
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: wjjk 
  To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:03 AM
  Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Direct toners- the Viradon mystery


  During storage solid sulfur is formed due to decomposition of the 
  polysulphide ion. In other words the active ingredient itself is lost.

  Walter

  janet ness wrote:
  > A related question:  is it possible to reuse Viradon toner?  I notice 
  > that used Viradon acquires solid, waxy chunks of something after 
  > storage.  I've been filtering and reusing it, but threw it out when it 
  > started to look like orange juice.  Is anything lost in filtering?
  >  
  > Janet Ness
  > 
  >     ----- Original Message -----
  >     *From:* Richard Knoppow <mailto:dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  >     *To:* pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  >     *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:15 AM
  >     *Subject:* [pure-silver] Re: Direct toners- the Viradon mystery
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >     -----Original Message-----
  >     From: Christopher Woodhouse <chris.woodhouse@xxxxxxxxxxxx
  >     <mailto:chris.woodhouse@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
  >     Sent: Jun 26, 2005 1:56 AM
  >     To: "pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>"
  >     <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
  >     Subject: [pure-silver] Direct toners- the Viradon mystery
  > 
  >     Until recently I have always used odorless sepia toners, normally
  >     indirectly, following a short bleach. Having seen some prints of
  >     Ralph's I
  >     thought I would try Viradon 'new' for the first time and was amazed
  >     at how
  >     it reacted in the wash. I know all that stuff about using a
  >     Bisulphate stop
  >     bath, but what I was wondering is it goes against everything I thought I
  >     knew about chemistry. I always thought that chemical activity goes
  >     down with
  >     lowered concentration. Watching through the side of my archival
  >     washer, the
  >     print continues to get browner and browner, changing even after 20
  >     minutes
  >     gentle washing.
  > 
  >     I'm intrigued, what is the mechanism that allows it to continually
  >     change
  >     colour when the concentration must be extremely dilute? I thought for a
  >     laugh I would put another print into extremely dilute Viradon - nothing
  >     seems to happen. What am I missing? (polite responses only!)
  > 
  >     -- 
  >     Regards Chris Woodhouse
  > 
  > 
  >        This is a well known characteristic of Polysulfide toners. They
  >     have the strange property of toning faster as they are exhausted or
  >     diluted. I don't know the chemical mechanism. A pretty strong sodium
  >     sulfite bath (10%) acts as a stop bath but the print should be
  >     washed quickly especially at first.  If the toner is dilute enough
  >     it can result in a peach colored stain. Kodak Brown Toner behaves
  >     the same way.  Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent stock will work instead of
  >     the sulfite bath (since its buffered sulfite at about 10%) but is an
  >     expensive substitute.
  > 
  >       How extremely dilute was the experiment? 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >     --
  >     Richard Knoppow
  >     dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  >     Los Angeles, CA, USA
  >     
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