[pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra

Hi Mark,
Just a correction, please. I said that, that for me, the darkroom was 80% of the creative process, developing neg., printing and such. The neg is 20%, maybe 30% of the creative process with me. But that's the way it works for me. Quite frequently, in the end, there is very little resemblance between the original image on the neg and the final print. Even the same neg gives different prints.
I also work with 8x10. I find it is different than the 120 format. If I take 5 images in a day, then I think I have done well. For me it is also a very meditative situation. The world ceases to exist and there is only what I see through the lens.
And I do agree that the so called enlightenment can come at different and unexpected times. I never throw out working copies of prints. The next day, a glance at the print from a different angle, upsidedown, and you are off and running 

In the end, it is important to go out and shoot.

May the light be with you,
Bogdan

Mark Blackwell wrote:


Well I would disagree with you a bit on the negative being 80% of the creative 
process.  It isn't the score of the music, just the paper on which that score 
is printed.  The paper is what saves the information.
The creativity comes from the heart and soul of the conductor reading the score, and the talent, skill and heart of the musicians on which he or she depends to follow the conductors instructions. 
For me certain amounts of so called enlightenment happen at very different 
times.  Most of the creativity comes before I ever put the camera to the eye.  
It actually in deciding when the shutter needs to be pushed.  Most of the rest 
is just techniques.   Sometimes a crop just becomes natural after the negative 
is in the enlarger.  Sometimes you just know what you want when you see it in 
the lens.

Even 8x10 cameras, if you are worried too much about the cost of film, you have 
the wrong camera.  If the photo is irreplaceable, then you work with what you 
know and take no chances.  Now if I am using it for stock, it may not be that 
big of a deal to retake so I can go cheap without too much worry.  The savings 
are small but over a couple hundred rolls it adds up.  Its easily $2 a roll 
cheaper than some film I have used so a couple hundred rolls of film I have 
saved enough to pay for the used 1V body.

Now your trip to the desert, don't go cheap.  I also might find that I have few 
if any problems and sometimes these films are hidden gems ignored because they 
are cheap.  It also could be I find its like the paper of the conductors score 
that has had a match put to it.  Still it will be a good excuse to get out 
there and work.


--- On Wed, 10/22/08, Bogdan Karasek <bkarasek@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


From: Bogdan Karasek <bkarasek@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 10:53 PM
hello,

I have to agree that the negative is the all important
element, it is the score from which you make the music (Ansel Adams ?) If you have a good negative, then you can play around with any kind of paper or technique that you want. This is why the darkroom is so important for me. 80% of the creativity gets done in there, for me. I still haven't printed my Death Valley negatives (done contacts), I want to be in a particular mood when I look at them again, when it's the end of February, -25°C outside, I'm fed up with the cold and snow, had enough of the winter fun, time to go and work on Death Valley kind of attitude. Gives them some space. That how I want to 
print them.
And I think that the other point is also very relevant. If the neg turns out bad because the film is in someway defective, well, you'll probably will never get the shot again. That wild burro outside the Charcoal Kilns will never be there again. If you're going to take photographs, then go with reliable film. I went to Death Valley in 120 format with Tri-x 320, APX 25 and Fujichrome 100. And if I'm not sure of the shot, I retake it, or try with a different DOF, lower to the ground, slight angle change. This way I have more to work with in the darkroom. So I don't want to worry that I might get a roll or roles that has pinholes in it. I'm not advocating the "machine gun approach" to taking photos with high speed motor and such. But I think that we all want to work with a good neg, not just in terms of image and all that but we also want a good, reliable physical support for that image. If the support is deficient or lacking in some way, then it takes away from the image. Like having a great lens on your camera and a filter that is smeared. What's the point of the lens. 
Testing is a different story.   I bought several 100 ft
rolls of expired Tri-x at a flea market several years ago, froze it and use that to test camera speeds. All I want is to know is that the images are consistent from f-stop/speed to complementary f-stop/speed and down the line. Also gives me an idea of the quality of the lens, soft/sharp. So going the mail-order route is too expensive just for 
testing film.
So for me, the quality of the negative is all important. The whole developing process of the neg is one of the most crucial elements in the whole photographic process, so I think it is important to reduce variables to a minimum (experimentation is another kettle of whatever), so I know what I can expect in terms of results, and this allows me, when in the field, to know that I can get this shot with this or that film and act accordingly. 

Anyway, film is cheap,  unless you're into  8x10 and
up,.

Just my thoughts on something that we use all the time in
our photography.

Cheers,
Bogdan

Mark Blackwell wrote:


I agree that film "If the job is important"

is the least of your worries.  At that point, I wouldn't
think even a half second about using what I really thought
would work best without a thought for cost.  IF cost is an
issue in a pro job, you aren't charging enough.  IF you
are on a once in a lifetime trip, think how much would it
take to make that trip twice to redo the prints.  At that
point its penny wise and pound foolish.  Film is probably
one of the smallest percentage of the cost associated with
photography, but its not zero.  Actually for me its the
paper for b&w printing that seems to cost me more than
anything else.

IF the film works well maybe I will try the paper.  For

me that would be a far bigger savings and it has one other
important feature.  IF it has a problem, I still have a
negative to redo the print.

--- On Wed, 10/22/08, eroustom@xxxxxxxxxxx

<eroustom@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:




From: eroustom@xxxxxxxxxxx

<eroustom@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 4:32 PM
The film scans very well. It can curl like a spring

through,

and I tape it face down to my flat bed scanner

rather than

try to hold it in those flimsy plastic frames. It

develops

well in Rodinal and D76 (I presoak this film for 2
minutes).  I use an acid stop bath - Ilfostop, or
Kodak's indicator stop bath. I make sure I mix

all my

chems to the right dilution, I also make sure

I'm within

2 degrees from the developer temp. I've seen a

pinhole

or dust curl in some frames from Arista, never the

whole

roll, never more than a spec here or there. Too bad

for one

frame that would have been a great print (I guess

I'll
scan it and photoshop it) 

My first ever roll of film (ever... since I started

doing

it all myself) was HP5+ from a 100 foot roll. Never

a

problem that wasn't something I could tell was

operator

error. Even though bulk loading is just an

opportunity to

ruin a film before you even start shooting. When

I've

used up all my other films, I'm going back to

Ilford,

(or Kodak I suppose). The cheaper films have their

place for

people like me who learn  empirically,  but if I

needed to

depend on the outcome they'd get put aside

without a
thought.
E.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Blackwell" <mblackwell1958@xxxxxxxxx> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:53:05 PM GMT 
-05:00
US/Canada Eastern Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra 
Well with two different reports, it simply

can't be

ignored as a possibility, especially when you

consider the

relatively small sample size.  Yet going totally

water may

not be my solution.  Instead I am like many people

in that

if one pill cures you, two must cure you twice as
fast. 
The reverse can also be true.  If X is causing a

problem,

get rid of it all.  Instead of totally eliminating

the acid

stop bath, I think I am going to try reducing the

strength

by about 50% and see what happens.  It should help

stop the
development with a far reduced risk of pinholes. 
I could use and will use a water stop bath, and

frankly I

wonder just how much continued development actually

occurs
in a solution that has very little developer left. 
I also wonder just how far I would need to dilute

the stop

so that it goes into a developing tank good, and

when it

comes out the indicator says its spent and just use

it once.
It probably would be far weaker than I expect. 
I tend to belong to more of the TLAR school of

photography.
For me its more intuitive and less technical. 
What's

the TLAR school of photography???  It stands for

"That
Looks About Right". 
Still for $2 a roll, if its even remotely

serviceable,

there is a place for it in my work.  Maybe not a

large
place, but a place none the less. I am curious also to see how this film scans. 

--- On Wed, 10/22/08, Tim Daneliuk
<tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
From: Tim Daneliuk
<tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 1:56 PM Mark Blackwell wrote:
Janet how strong was your stop bath??? 
I had a similar thought when I read this. I

*never*
use an
active stop bath for film. Developers are alkaline, stop 
baths are
acid
- that's why they stop the development. It is, however,
possible to
get pinholing when the emulsion moves from the 
alkali to
acid
environments. 
I long ago switched to a running water
"stop
bath" for all film processing. Development does not stop 
instantly, but
that
just gets factored into the overall personal 
ASA/development
times
I've come up with per the usual zone system calibration.
--- On Wed, 10/22/08, Janet Cull
<jcull@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
From: Janet Cull
<jcull@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU
Ultra
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008,
12:34 PM
Anyone ever use this film?
What did
you like or
dislike? 
I tried it and ended up with images I

would
have
liked to
print, but with tiny holes in the emulsion. Not
good! 



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--
________________________________________________________________
 Bogdan Karasek
Montréal, Québec bogdan(at)bogdanphoto.com 
 Canada                               www.bogdanphoto.com

                    "I bear witness"
________________________________________________________________




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--
________________________________________________________________
 Bogdan Karasek
 Montréal, Québec                     bogdan(at)bogdanphoto.com
 Canada                               www.bogdanphoto.com

                    "I bear witness"
________________________________________________________________ 


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