[pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra

hello,
I have to agree that the negative is the all important element, it is the score from which you make the music (Ansel Adams ?) If you have a good negative, then you can play around with any kind of paper or technique that you want. This is why the darkroom is so important for me. 80% of the creativity gets done in there, for me. I still haven't printed my Death Valley negatives (done contacts), I want to be in a particular mood when I look at them again, when it's the end of February, -25°C outside, I'm fed up with the cold and snow, had enough of the winter fun, time to go and work on Death Valley kind of attitude. Gives them some space. That how I want to print them.
And I think that the other point is also very relevant. If the neg turns out bad because the film is in someway defective, well, you'll probably will never get the shot again. That wild burro outside the Charcoal Kilns will never be there again. If you're going to take photographs, then go with reliable film. I went to Death Valley in 120 format with Tri-x 320, APX 25 and Fujichrome 100. And if I'm not sure of the shot, I retake it, or try with a different DOF, lower to the ground, slight angle change. This way I have more to work with in the darkroom. So I don't want to worry that I might get a roll or roles that has pinholes in it. I'm not advocating the "machine gun approach" to taking photos with high speed motor and such. But I think that we all want to work with a good neg, not just in terms of image and all that but we also want a good, reliable physical support for that image. If the support is deficient or lacking in some way, then it takes away from the image. Like having a great lens on your camera and a filter that is smeared. What's the point of the lens. Testing is a different story. I bought several 100 ft rolls of expired Tri-x at a flea market several years ago, froze it and use that to test camera speeds. All I want is to know is that the images are consistent from f-stop/speed to complementary f-stop/speed and down the line. Also gives me an idea of the quality of the lens, soft/sharp. So going the mail-order route is too expensive just for testing film.
So for me, the quality of the negative is all important. The whole developing process of the neg is one of the most crucial elements in the whole photographic process, so I think it is important to reduce variables to a minimum (experimentation is another kettle of whatever), so I know what I can expect in terms of results, and this allows me, when in the field, to know that I can get this shot with this or that film and act accordingly. 

Anyway, film is cheap,  unless you're into  8x10 and up,.

Just my thoughts on something that we use all the time in our photography.

Cheers,
Bogdan

Mark Blackwell wrote:


I agree that film "If the job is important" is the least of your worries.  At that 
point, I wouldn't think even a half second about using what I really thought would work best 
without a thought for cost.  IF cost is an issue in a pro job, you aren't charging enough.  
IF you are on a once in a lifetime trip, think how much would it take to make that trip twice 
to redo the prints.  At that point its penny wise and pound foolish.  Film is probably one of 
the smallest percentage of the cost associated with photography, but its not zero.  Actually 
for me its the paper for b&w printing that seems to cost me more than anything else.

IF the film works well maybe I will try the paper.  For me that would be a far 
bigger savings and it has one other important feature.  IF it has a problem, I 
still have a negative to redo the print.


--- On Wed, 10/22/08, eroustom@xxxxxxxxxxx <eroustom@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


From: eroustom@xxxxxxxxxxx <eroustom@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 4:32 PM
The film scans very well. It can curl like a spring through,
and I tape it face down to my flat bed scanner rather than
try to hold it in those flimsy plastic frames. It develops
well in Rodinal and D76 (I presoak this film for 2
minutes).  I use an acid stop bath - Ilfostop, or
Kodak's indicator stop bath. I make sure I mix all my
chems to the right dilution, I also make sure I'm within
2 degrees from the developer temp. I've seen a pinhole
or dust curl in some frames from Arista, never the whole
roll, never more than a spec here or there. Too bad for one
frame that would have been a great print (I guess I'll
scan it and photoshop it) 

My first ever roll of film (ever... since I started doing
it all myself) was HP5+ from a 100 foot roll. Never a
problem that wasn't something I could tell was operator
error. Even though bulk loading is just an opportunity to
ruin a film before you even start shooting. When I've
used up all my other films, I'm going back to Ilford,
(or Kodak I suppose). The cheaper films have their place for
people like me who learn  empirically,  but if I needed to
depend on the outcome they'd get put aside without a
thought.
E.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Blackwell" <mblackwell1958@xxxxxxxxx> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:53:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra 
Well with two different reports, it simply can't be
ignored as a possibility, especially when you consider the
relatively small sample size.  Yet going totally water may
not be my solution.  Instead I am like many people in that
if one pill cures you, two must cure you twice as fast. 
The reverse can also be true.  If X is causing a problem,
get rid of it all.  Instead of totally eliminating the acid
stop bath, I think I am going to try reducing the strength
by about 50% and see what happens.  It should help stop the
development with a far reduced risk of pinholes. 
I could use and will use a water stop bath, and frankly I
wonder just how much continued development actually occurs
in a solution that has very little developer left. 
I also wonder just how far I would need to dilute the stop
so that it goes into a developing tank good, and when it
comes out the indicator says its spent and just use it once.
It probably would be far weaker than I expect. 
I tend to belong to more of the TLAR school of photography.
For me its more intuitive and less technical.  What's
the TLAR school of photography???  It stands for "That
Looks About Right". 
Still for $2 a roll, if its even remotely serviceable,
there is a place for it in my work.  Maybe not a large
place, but a place none the less. I am curious also to see how this film scans. 

--- On Wed, 10/22/08, Tim Daneliuk
<tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Tim Daneliuk <tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 1:56 PM Mark Blackwell wrote:
Janet how strong was your stop bath??? 
I had a similar thought when I read this. I *never*
use an
active stop bath for film. Developers are alkaline, stop baths are
acid
- that's why they stop the development. It is, however,
possible to
get pinholing when the emulsion moves from the alkali to
acid
environments. I long ago switched to a running water "stop bath" for all film processing. Development does not stop instantly, but
that
just gets factored into the overall personal ASA/development
times
I've come up with per the usual zone system calibration.
--- On Wed, 10/22/08, Janet Cull
<jcull@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Janet Cull <jcull@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Arista EDU Ultra To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 12:34 PM
Anyone ever use this film?
What did
you like or
dislike? 
I tried it and ended up with images I would
have
liked to
print, but with tiny holes in the emulsion. Not good! 




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--
________________________________________________________________
 Bogdan Karasek
 Montréal, Québec                     bogdan(at)bogdanphoto.com
 Canada                               www.bogdanphoto.com

                    "I bear witness"
________________________________________________________________ 


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