[pskmail] Aw: Re: FW: FW: Re: Fldigi

  • From: "Rein Couperus" <rein@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: pskmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 09:17:14 +0200 (CEST)

I have a raspbery pi on order...
But I probably won't have the time to put pskmail on.
I also have a walwart PC lying around; I wanted to put a server on it...
I have not opened the package :-)

Rein PA0R



Great to see your comment on the subject, as one of the big contributors to the PSKmail project.
I realise this is not a commercial project, yes you are right it's a hobby one and as such is limited by collective expertise and time. The work load falls upon the select few, with the ability to make it happen, and many people are very grateful,  for that effort :-)
For the people with a dream of streaming movies over HF, no its not going to happen!
A balance of reasonable speed for text messages and link robustness is more important, in my opinion, a robust link is more important than speed.......it's better to have a link, albeit a slow one rather than a fast one, that does not work.
As far as hardware is concerned, to future proof anything is hard but consider the PK232 is still going after all these years:-) I just upgraded a 15 year old DSP-232 to the latest Plus version.
I can drive all these "old" boxes with my iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch and they work fine, the software I use has been slightly modified by the developer, at my request. 
I think it needs to be considered just what part of the PSKmail task could be done in hardware, to improve the modem and ARQ capability. The hardware concept is not the be all and end all, however it could  carry part of the processing load to ease the requirements of the PC.
The time that processor components have until EOL is like anything, the DSP56000 family of processors lives on, after 20 years with successive development of the series. the LL Grace box used the DSP56000, the current SCS DSP Tracker uses the DSP56303 and is still in current production, although the processor maker suggests that part not be used in new designs. It's been going for 7 or so years, now.
PC operating systems go through a similar cycle of upgrades, if you want to call them that :-)
There is no rest for the wicked:-) 
My thoughts were simply to try and offload some of the PSKmail workload on the PC, to a hardware box, to make it easier to advance the PC software side of PSKmail and also make the development of ARQ better and more reliable.
In your case, you have made a great success of the Android platform :-) Acoustic coupling brings back memories of my Pocketmail days, using a Palm IIIx doing 300 baud email, in public phone boxes:-)
I don't suggest you hang a hardware box, off an Android phone!
Maybe a PSKmail Server? Or a PC Client station?

73,

Jack VK4JRC



Sent from my iPad

On 09/04/2012, at 9:46 AM, John Douyere <vk2eta@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think this is an interesting thread and a question worth posing.

As always, it is a question of choices since resources are not infinite.

If we step back, and look at the direction taken by Pskmail over the past few years, one of its key objectives has been interoperability.

And today I believe I can safely say that we have the only NO external hardware solution that runs clients across four major platforms, namely Linux, Apple OS X, Windows and Android.

They are all interoperable AND none of them mandates an external hardware. I have had full Pskmail sessions using only my phone and my rig by using audio coupling.

The key drivers of this success in my opinion have been Open Source AND hardware/OS abstraction. Even the Android version is reusing a significant amount of the PC version's code.

At the other hand of the scale from this level of abstraction is a more hardware, OS specific solution like the boxes you mentioned above. These are attractive and often very well designed platforms and I did consider at one point developing Pskmail for the Nue Psk platform.

Here is my take on the pluses and minuses of the abstraction approach:

++ re-usability of code across platforms AND time (hardware chips go obsolete regularly and box platforms tend to be rather short lived).

++ cost reduction as we leverage massive volumes of production versus a very narrow user base. Example is now an Android telephone can be bought for less than $70 and run Pskmail in full, including all the modes we have in the list.

- poor cpu utilization since all the abstraction levels induce overheads

-- variability of hardware introduces constraints and reduces performance.

On the common platforms (Intel based PCs, Android phones etc...) there is a fast trend of cost down AND cpu power increase at the same time, meaning that the available abstract platforms are getting cheaper and cheaper 'while NET available CPU power (after abstractions) is increasing.  

The price we "pay" for this is poorer peak performance. Although an Intel processor for example is more than powerful enough for the processing we need (as a reference the I7 is producing 128K MIPS versus less than 7K MIPS for a quad core DSP used in one of the "latest hardware modem", instructions efficiency aside), the variability of the chain from sound card to hardware driver to o/s to final program creates constraints that restrict the data rates we can practically reach over noisy channels. 

Top performance is possible but with a limited set of hardware available on these common platforms. 

But also let's be honest, we do not have anywhere near the software design capability when compared with these commercial solutions. It is a hobby after all and it is supposed to be fun.

And higher data speed can be fun I agree, hence the recent developments in that area.

But an interesting point though: I have spent a fair bit of time developing faster modes reaching up to 1760 WPM @ 2400Hz bandwidth, with FEC (or 3200WPM without), but I haven't had ANY feedback on the faster modes for the HF Ham bands.

I had excellent, quality feedback for the targeted FM modes or MARS channels on the other hand.

This is telling me that the need for higher data rates on HF HAM bands must not be that critical otherwise I would have received more feedback, positive or negative.

So in summary here is my view: since we only have part time development capabilities, I have chosen to spend my development time using the most widely available open hardware and software platforms I could access. I will continue for a while to work on higher speeds, but in the context of these open platforms.

I believe that this is the most effective way I can help the most people use that solution.

Of course any proposed addition of resources for developing hardware or other software solutions would be welcomed.

All the best,

73, John (VK2ETA)


On 09/04/2012 6:16 AM, "Jack Chomley" <radio@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

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  • » [pskmail] Aw: Re: FW: FW: Re: Fldigi - Rein Couperus