no problem, did I, other than mentioning the wrong key for color in IE, say something wrong in your opinion, I thought I covered the basic troubles fairly good? where else did I mess up?
any info I get is welcome, I dispense information, so improvements to that information is always welcome.
take care, Inthane. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com----- Original Message ----- From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:39 AM Subject: Re: web accessibility testing
Hi Inthane, That would be Insert+5 to say color. Technically, a page can comply with 508, but not be accessible. That's why I am asking Robbie a lot of questions. I have seen situations where blind people tell sighted people that their pages are not accessible when it really comes down to either a case where the page could be done to make ita little more usable. I've also seen situations where people don't know allthey should about how to use their assistive technology. The naturalinclination is to think that the blind person must be the expert because hebrings 508 up in a conversation. I start thinking that someone must not be an expert when he starts saying that he has to look up how to do thingswith his screen reader. No offense intended, but we have enough hard to use sites out there without adding misinformation about the differences between compliance and usability when we don't even know how to do basic stuff withour assistive technology. Ego needs to take a back seat when it comes to this stuff. Sorry. This is a big soapbox issue with me. Jim James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc., james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810 "It's more important for me to start to do the right thing than it is to wait until I think I can do it just right." "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@roadr unner.com> To Sent by: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx programmingblind- cc bounce@freelists. org Subject Re: web accessibility testing 10/09/2007 02:31 AM Please respond to programmingblind@ freelists.org Robbie, some of what Jim was talking about was notations on the page andforms itself, where there are items to fill out, and they say "the items inred are required fields" that's a non accessibility statement, where if itsays "the items marked with a star are required fields" and the stars do indeed show up on the correct items to be filled out, that's accessible, sites with graphical links that read like this "link graphic 21279-1.jpg, link graphic 21279-2.jpg" and the like qualify as non accessible while "link graphic21232home.jpg and link graphic21232cont.jpg" can be consideredaccessible since they contain a clue, or at least a partial clue as to whatthey are in the graphic name.you can check the color and type of font, if you do not have them hard setin your browser by highlighting a word and hitting insert and F together.other things are items such as java scripts that cause motion or other nicelooking visual effects that cause a screen reader to have a problem readingthe page, loud music that can not be turned off by hitting escape, java forms used to display items when you hit a link on the page, such as tiger directs hints links that bring up a java run display page, which jaws, and I think other screen readers as well, cannot read, etc. you can also feed the URL to the page to sights like the "bobby" accessibility page and see what there report says, though take that one witha grain of salt, they tend to go a bit overboard on the standards, and mostfolks can't make all the changes they require to be "compliant". another thing to watch for is a capsha security setup with no audio rendering of the capsha graphic so we can hear what sighted's are seeing. there are a lot of criteria, but I think that gives you the basics. here are links to some references for "accessibility" on the web: the w3c consortium, the site with the standards lists: site: www.w3c.org guidelines 1.1: http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/ Guidelines 2.0 (working draft): http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/ a site for section 508 referencing: www.section508.gov)Section 508 The Road to Accessibility http://www.section508.gov/ that should get you going, inthane. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Linksto Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at: http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com . to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at: http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbie Miller" <Robbie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:27 PM Subject: Re: web accessibility testingI'm doing the accessibility testing myself. robbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Re: web accessibility testingDo you have to do the accessibility testing yourself, or are you also looking for corporate solutions as well? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbie Miller" <Robbie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: Re: web accessibility testingHello James, I should have mentioned that I'm totally blind. I have no way I can think of to check web pages to seeif they: 1 remain independant of color, and 2. Stay Independent of Style Sheets. I'm looking for tools and resources to do this accessibility testing, any help is very much appreciated. Thanks again. Robbie robbie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: web accessibility testingHi Robby, For color independence, you will get a clue when you see things like "required fields in read," "emphasis in yellow," or some otherphrasinglike that. For style sheets, the site needs to be 508 compliant when style sheets are off. The procedure to disable style sheets is different foreach browser you use. Final advice, make sure you understand what problems are truly 508, which ones are usability, and which ones are your possible lack of knowledge on how to use a screen reader, assuming you use one. Thanks. Jim James D Homme, Usability Engineering Highmark Inc. james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx 412-544-1810 "It's more important for me to start to do the right thing than it is to wait until I think I can do it just right." "Robbie Miller" <Robbie@rlmitcons ulting.com> To Sent by: "Blind Programming" programmingblind- <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> bounce@freelists. cc org Subject web accessibility testing 10/05/2007 10:01 AM Please respond to programmingblind@ freelists.org Hello Listers, I've been asked to do an accessibility - section 508 evaluation of a web site. My question is, how can I test a page to see if it: 1.) "Remain Independent of Color" and 2.) "Stay Independent ofStyleSheets"? Are there any tools I can use to do this? Any help on this would be appreciated. Also, if there are any resources on web accessibility testing, please let me know. Thank you. 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