Hi, Another benefit of using a text editor is that you truly get to know what the code is doing. This is more difficult with an intigrated development environment, because you don't know what it's doing automatically unless you work very hard at it. Jim ---------- Jim Homme, Usability Engineering. 412-544-1810. Catch the gratitude attitude. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:01 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: vb code? Not surprisingly perhaps, I agree with Jared about the competitiveness of a powerful, accessible editor over a visually-oriented IDE. IntelliSense is certainly helpful, but the IDE comes with a lot of baggage that amounts to trade offs. Much time is wasted trying to make it work in a friendly and efficient manner with a screen reader. The generated code is often verbose and unclear, so once one needs to tweak the behavior, time is lost in trying to understand and change the code in a way that will not be unde by the supposed intelligence of the IDE. More source doe is involved because of the template-like generated code rather than fine-tuned manual code. The numerous project files are a management issue in themselves, making it hard to know what file is doing what when. Yes, it takes more time too look up syntax in documentation without IntelliSense, but once the concepts and syntax are learned by necessity, they pay off in dividents! I did everything I could to make Visual Studio as usable as possible with JAWS, yet I ultimately concluded that I was considerably more productive with keeping close to the code with a text editor that lets me do that. Of course, if one is working on a team that uses an IDE, then it may be necessary to do so, just as it may be necessary to use sighted conventions like indentation even when they do not help, and may even hinder, a speech user. There are particular things an IDE is helpful for, e.g., automatically beautifying source code for sighted consumption. I am not saying that a text editor is better than an IDE for most programmers, but I definately think it is a legitimate, productive choice for many, especially for blind programmers contending with visually oriented development tools. Jamal On Thu, 26 Mar 2009, Jared Wright wrote: > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:47:54 -0500 > From: Jared Wright <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx> > Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: vb code? > > Rick is certainly entitled to his thoughts on the issue, but for the > sake of hearing the other side I'll say that I get along just fine > without the IDE. Now I'm sure the situations scale a little higher than > the ones I'm in at the moment, but certainly I've done work on fairly > complex, team-based software development projects using the .net > framework. It's all about finding the environment that is comfortable to > your personal nuances and habits, I think. The IDE may be an option for > some, but I must disagree with its being a necessity. > > Jared > > On 3/26/2009 1:57 PM, Ricks Place wrote: > > Hi Alex: > > Did you set up your IDE for working with a Screen Reader and make use > > of the JAWS Scripts? > > If you are going to do any real programming you will need to work in > > an IDE. There is just too much complexity and too many lines of code > > to work in a Text Editor for anything but a small demo project. > > How are you going to handle any Interop or SDK technicals? What about > > DataBase, DataSets and Forms or Pages if you want to work on the net? > > Are you going to wire up all the web.config or app.config settings by > > hand? > > If you want to play around a little your plan is fine. If you are > > going to work on any real projects or do any work at an educational > > institution you need to learn how to make the IDE work to your > > satisfaction. That can be done. > > Rick USA > > __________ > > View the list's information and change your settings at > > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. The views expressed in this e-mail message do not necessarily represent the views of Highmark Inc., its subsidiaries, or affiliates. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind