Hi again, I am the one leading up the addin project. I am assuming people on list know of my background but maybe that assumption is incorrect. So I will explain some of my qualifications but not to toot my own horn, I just want folks to understand my qualifications for heading up this project. I have worked as a professional programmer for over 12 years now using all microsoft technologies. I am a Microsoft Certified Application Developer MCAD which means I am certified in microsoft programming technologies and hopefully I know my stuff *grin*. I bring a wealth of programming experience to the table ranging from software engineer skills, technical documentation skills, database skills, jaws scripting skills, and understand accessibility in general. I have worked in the roles of project manager, programming manager, and currently am a consultent/trainer who coaches programmers on how to use agile methods to develop software. I have worked under waterfall development and agile development methodologies. I own and operate two software companies of my own www.blindsoftware.com and www.bscgames.com. Do I know everything? No way! However, I have enough experience to head up this project. For more information on my technical qualifications, please visit my linked in page found here: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jdauben Again, to be clear, I am only stating this information so that anyone new on the list who does not know me can gain an understanding of who I am and what skills I can offer to this project. Thanks all for reading and sorry my post was so long! /Justin wrote: > For you Nubes: Ken, Jamal and a fellow named Will Pearson were some of the > movers and shakers behind the design and development of the JAWS VS Studio > scripts. We are talking about a quite professional and leading group of > programmers. There were others who also had input into the project, I think > Sina and a couple of other familiar names might have been involved in the > early days of Blue Sky Design. Will was from over in England and, I think, > completed his PHD over there. Oh ya, he was a sighted Microsoft VIP as well > and provided much information about Visual Studio and related accessibility > issues. He has moved on into other things involving Artificial Intelligence > the last I heard. Jamal has become one of the leading experts on > implementing scripts for WindowEyes and JAWS for VS me thinks. Ken is > around, was another top designer and Programmer for the scripts and has done > some work on them when needed. They did all this around 5 or 6 years ago and > they have all pretty much moved on to build lives outside the VS and JAWS > scripting project from what I've seen. Therefore it is incumbant on newer > Programmers to pick up the ball. That is, if there are any new Programmers > with the drive, intellegence, experience and time to create the next level > of accessibility for the MS VS environment. That said, I'm not sure any > exist from the posts I've seen over the past few years. If there are any > with the necessary skill set they are likely employed in full time jobs or > full time school and may not have the time to dedicate to such a project. > The original group were quite a team of advanced, well educated and > experienced professionals so it will be hard to duplicate that process me > thinks. Modifying their scripts may be the easiest and most productive > method of getting VS 2010 accessible - at least until WindowEyes comes out > with their new version of their scripting model and we can see what hooks > into VS DOM stuff they will provide. > That said, go get em programmers! You can do it if you are dedicated enough > and have the time to dedicate to such a project. It would be well worth > while if your code blocks last at least say one decade and those folks > getting involved can project having time to maintain their code for that > length of time. That way folks who take a job or start a long-term education > geared twoard programming, and VS in particular, will have some security > that they will not lose their jobs or have to drop their major at University > because VS changes it's accessibility methodology and the plugin or scripts > can not be easily enough adopted to the new environment. I am not against > the helpful nature expressed but some day there needs to be a real > commitment to help support blind professionals so they can count on > accessibility without worrying about changes to their work environments > related to VS versioning causing them to lose their jobs. > If they rely on free, volunteers, then they are not being independent and, > again, relying on the charity of others which often breaks down with time > and resources. > If I were in the Business I would be glad to pay a few hundred each year to > have my job secure and if there are enough blind Programmers the income > wmight be enough to have a part-time Accessibility Programmer dedicated to a > project of this type within some current quality Software development > company. For those of us who use the Express modules, modifications to the > original JAWS Scripts and, or, WindowEyes will have to do and can work quite > well as we have seen with what the original JAWS Scripting Gang have > demonstrated. > Again, it is not practile nor fair to rely on any single individual nor > group of individuals to put in the time necessary to do something of this > magnitude. I see all the posts asking the creators of the JAWS scripts to > tweak them, help install or configure them and now to enhance and upgrade > them to work with an entirely new Accessibility Environment as well as new > tough features like WPF, Silverlight and others - it is just not fair andI > have seen pretty much nobody jump in and replace their efforts to continue > the process of making Microsoft Visual Studio and related products more > accessible. 5 years now and where is the new group to take over the reigns > from ythe original developers of the free Scripts? Those who might want to > do not have the skill set, those who have the skill set do not have the > time - same old, same old. > It is just the way Supply and Demand work time or money in this case for > skilled professionals trying to finish an education or make a living in the > real world - unlike this old fat blind hobbiest. > Rick USA > Rick USA > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:15 AM > Subject: RE: the plug-in > > >> The reason they only have basic support is the same reason it has never >> really worked well. If you call FS they don't support it at all. We are >> the >> ones that wrote the scripts those of us on this list. The Jaws scripts >> can >> easily fix the text editor if you have time to do it. >> >> Ken >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Justin >> Daubenmire >> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:50 AM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Cc: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: the plug-in >> >> Hi all, >> >> The reason I opted to go the plug-in/Addin route was because jaws >> version 12 support of WPF and UI Automation is in the early >> trial/error phases. This potentially means that scripting jaws may not >> be the quickest route to getting reliable support into vs 2010 for >> people who need it fast for work or college. More than likely this is >> why fs only has basic support for the code editor currently in vs >> 2010. The addin would bring reliable speech to jaws and perhaps other >> screen readers if others would want to join the project and program >> the support into the addin project. That would be awesome! The addin >> does not have to be just for jaws, it could be for any screen reader >> if enough volunteers contribute. >> >> /Justin >> >> On 11/16/10, The Elf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> its been discussed but I don't think it's gotten very far. >>> >>> I think ken Perry poked into it some and decided that the 2008 ones could >> be >>> reconfigured easy enough but that was the last I herd of it. >>> >>> inthane >>> Moderator, Blind Access Help >>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises >>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals >>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn! >>> www.alacorncomputer.com >>> proprietor, The Grab Bag, >>> for blind computer users and programmers >>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Justin Daubenmire" <jdaubenmire@xxxxxxxxx> >>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:10 AM >>> Subject: Re: Qiestopm Re: the plug-in >>> >>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> >>>> Is there already a vs 2010 plug-in being developed? If yes, I was >>>> unaware of it and perhaps we can join our efforts. >>>> >>>> Please let me know. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> /Justin >>>> >>>> On 11/16/10, Alex Coleman <AlexC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> Likewise. >>>>> >>>>> I am interested in accessibility of VS 2010 Professional, as that is >>>>> what we have adopted here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Mark Matthews [mailto:mark.matthews53@xxxxxxxxxxxx] >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 11:17 AM >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> Subject: Qiestopm Re: the plug-in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'd thought I'd start a new thread as this is to do with the plug-in, >>>>> but not related to Justin's project. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Apologies if this is rather elementary, but could someone explain, or >>>>> point me to information about how the plug-in actually works, and I'm >>>>> also curious as to why it only works with the Professional version - >>>>> would I be on the right lines by assuming the utility uses components >>>>> which aren't present in the Express? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank the team for there >>>>> excellent work on the 2005/2008 scripts. After much fiddling round, I >>>>> got VS2008 express functioning fully from the ISO installation. I doubt >>>>> very much if I'll ever reach even half the standard of Programmer as >>>>> some of the list members, never the less its always been a subject that >>>>> I've been interested in, and I'm thinking no knowledge is wasted >>>>> knowledge. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind