Re: sectiob 508 question

Wow, that's interesting -- and back when I was growing up (in Arizona) they 
were a leader in accessibility.
Too bad they have fallen behind the times.
Interesting post.
--le

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chris Hofstader 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 8:25 AM
  Subject: RE: sectiob 508 question


  Hi,

   

  Many states are indeed using 508 as a template for their own IT purchasing 
policies.  Some states, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, California, 
Oregon, Washington, Vermont, Maryland, Maine, Delaware, Texas, Michigan  and 
North Carolina have used 508 as a basis but have made their laws much stronger 
and removed things like the micro-purchase exemption.  As these states are 
always listed among the most progressive on disability matters as well as 
issues regarding education, social welfare and average salary, it is no 
surprise that they would lead the nation on efforts regarding people with 
disabilities.

   

  Conversely, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, Utah (Rocky 
Anderson doesn't count), Arizona and a few others are actively fighting any 
state level laws governing accessibility to anything.  In a case involving 
Alabama, the Supremes ruled that a city hall did not need to be accessible to 
people who get around using wheeled mobility devices as ADA and 508 would step 
on the right of states to pass their own laws that do not involve crossing any 
boundaries which would make the issue Federal and, consequently, fall under 
laws at the national level.

   

  As some of you know, other than fishing and collecting knives and a few other 
minor hobbies, I spend almost all of my waking hours working (these days) 
professionally for CUNY Research Foundation, Bookshare.org, Trace and ATG.  The 
rest of my waking hours are spent reading and writing and discussing AT issues. 
 My shrink thinks I really need to spend more time on and in the water and less 
time obsessing over ensuring that I learn as much as possible about this stuff. 
 As I haven't started trying to find more balance in my life yet, I remain 
embedded in all sorts of articles ranging from scientific academic things like 
Will Pearson writes to very boring transcripts of legal battles that few other 
people pay any attention to.

   

  Hence, I am filled with obscure details about AT, the science behind it and 
the laws that govern it.  

   

  The sad thing is, after spending a little over six years at FS and knocking 
around the biz for about two years and most recently joining projects at the 
institutions mentioned above, I continue to work hard to deliver solutions but, 
at the same time, I feel the magnitude of the issues people with disabilities 
face on a global basis are too large to even imagine solutions in our lifetime. 
 While we see significant improvements in the US, Western Europe, Canada and 
Singapore and modest improvements in Japan, India and various parts of the 
Middle East, the majority of people with disabilities live elsewhere.

   

  Even if we just focus on the nations where AT and other accommodations are 
relatively good, we have such a huge delta to make up in any measure of daily 
productivity compared to our sighted counterparts, that even contemplating such 
can be incredibly discouraging.  Some of us (myself included) are lucky enough 
to have an expert level in the field that knowledge outweighs typical measures 
of productivity but jobs for the blind equivalent of a ditch digger simply do 
not exist.  Everyone on this list has a terrific intellect and aptitude for a 
very marketable set of skills but what of the tens of thousands of blinks who 
would, if sighted, flip burgers or work at Wal-Mart?

   

  Even those of us with access to all of the AT in the world perform tasks 
quite a bit more slowly than our sighted counterparts (a function of the serial 
nature of information input - one syllable or pause in audio and one line on a 
Braille line) that we need to work much harder than those without a vision 
impairment to accomplish the same goals.  Often, the part that causes me the 
greatest frustration is that I can often see potential inventions that would 
improve productivity, estimate the cost to implement (then multiply by 4 to get 
a realistic figure) but cannot find anyone interested in funding such projects 
and find that the AT companies are cold to doing anything more than the minimum 
to move forward.

   

  On the opposite side of the coin, days like Monday when I make a really cool 
breakthrough in some software I'm making really feels good and is much more 
rewarding than adding a feature to a financial analysis program (where my 
career started) so the intangibles sometimes are far greater than the sadness 
caused by looking at the global picture.

   

  Sorry for the rant, it's just how I feel this morning.

   

  Enjoy,

  cdh

   

  From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Arnold Bailey
  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:32 PM
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: sectiob 508 question

   

  Just an added comment .. Many states are individually referring to Section 
508 requirements for their state agencies. Here in Florida we have a position 
paper for our state to conform. IMHO I think any company who provides 
software/hardware to the federal government must be concerned with 508. If 
they're smart, business wise, they will foresee that shortly most states will 
have the law. That's why I think there are real opportunities for Accessibility 
wise programmers opening up.

  Arnold

  On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Sina Bahram <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

  Gosh, and Chris knows that I should know better. Sorry about that blunder. I
  was on my way out of the house and quickly hit send without doing a review.

  Chris, thanks for the correction bud.


  Take care,
  Sina

  -----Original Message-----
  From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

  [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader
  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:35 AM
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: RE: sectiob 508 question

  A slight correction to Sina's comment: Section 508 does not apply to private
  sector corporations that do not do business with the government.  The
  pending Target case and those that came before (AmericaWest Airlines, MARTA,
  etc.) used the argument under ADA that says that "all places of public
  accommodation be made accessible" and the NFB lawyers are claiming that in
  the information age, a web site is, in fact, a place.  A couple of the
  circuit courts have upheld the web site is a place theory and no one has
  appealed it to the Supremes yet.

  While they all have similar sounding language regarding people with
  disabilities, Section 508, Section 255 (telecommunications act), Section 504
  (rehabilitation act but on education and people with disabilities), IDEA and
  ADA all have their own subtle nuances that make the soup of disability
  related regs in the US such a mess.

  There is currently a movement in the US Senate to pass a new ADA that will
  clarify many of the difficulties and ambiguities with the current version
  which contains the very nasty word, "reasonable" which is entirely subject
  to the definition of a judge or jury.  You should all write to your congress
  people and US senators to encourage them to support the "ADA Restoration
  Act."

  Off of Soapbox,
  cdh

  -----Original Message-----
  From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:04 AM
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: RE: sectiob 508 question

  Even that's not necessarily true anymore.

  Please see the case against Target in the US for details.

  Take care,
  Sina

  -----Original Message-----
  From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:22 AM
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: RE: sectiob 508 question



  Note that private companies that have nothing to do with the government have
  nothing to fear if they are a private company and Aare selling to the
  government tools that will be used on the job in the government then they
  are affected only if that software will be used by a person with a
  disability because if a person doesn't complain they will not be hunted.
  They should be forced by this law to convert even if no one complains but
  that is not the way the real world works.

  Ken

  Ken

  -----Original Message-----
  From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marlon Brandão
  de Sousa
  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:54 AM
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: sectiob 508 question

  Agreed but I was asking how it works in the real world and not what is it in
  theory, cinse I really want to know if it is being applied and if law swites
  are being applied against private companies based on section 508 or on
  whatever other law if for example their websites are not accessible.
  Marlon

  2008/4/1, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
  >
  >
  > This faq explains who it affects and who is exempt.
  >
  > http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/brochure.htm
  >
  > Ken
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marlon
  > Brandão de Sousa
  > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:24 PM
  > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  > Subject: sectiob 508 question
  >
  > Hi,
  > Although this does not relate to programming, this does relate to
  > blind programming. Do you know if section 508 only relates to public
  > services or if relates also to private services?
  > Like does section 508 must be applied in sites from private companies
  > or only the govern sites have to comply with what it says?
  > Thanks a lot,
  > Marlon
  > --
  > When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
  > stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for free."
  > Linus Torvalds
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  > View the list's information and change your settings at
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  >


  --
  When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just stare at
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