Re: sectiob 508 question
- From: "tribble" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:52:11 -0400
Wow, that's interesting -- and back when I was growing up (in Arizona) they
were a leader in accessibility.
Too bad they have fallen behind the times.
Interesting post.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Hofstader
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: sectiob 508 question
Hi,
Many states are indeed using 508 as a template for their own IT purchasing
policies. Some states, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, California,
Oregon, Washington, Vermont, Maryland, Maine, Delaware, Texas, Michigan and
North Carolina have used 508 as a basis but have made their laws much stronger
and removed things like the micro-purchase exemption. As these states are
always listed among the most progressive on disability matters as well as
issues regarding education, social welfare and average salary, it is no
surprise that they would lead the nation on efforts regarding people with
disabilities.
Conversely, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, Utah (Rocky
Anderson doesn't count), Arizona and a few others are actively fighting any
state level laws governing accessibility to anything. In a case involving
Alabama, the Supremes ruled that a city hall did not need to be accessible to
people who get around using wheeled mobility devices as ADA and 508 would step
on the right of states to pass their own laws that do not involve crossing any
boundaries which would make the issue Federal and, consequently, fall under
laws at the national level.
As some of you know, other than fishing and collecting knives and a few other
minor hobbies, I spend almost all of my waking hours working (these days)
professionally for CUNY Research Foundation, Bookshare.org, Trace and ATG. The
rest of my waking hours are spent reading and writing and discussing AT issues.
My shrink thinks I really need to spend more time on and in the water and less
time obsessing over ensuring that I learn as much as possible about this stuff.
As I haven't started trying to find more balance in my life yet, I remain
embedded in all sorts of articles ranging from scientific academic things like
Will Pearson writes to very boring transcripts of legal battles that few other
people pay any attention to.
Hence, I am filled with obscure details about AT, the science behind it and
the laws that govern it.
The sad thing is, after spending a little over six years at FS and knocking
around the biz for about two years and most recently joining projects at the
institutions mentioned above, I continue to work hard to deliver solutions but,
at the same time, I feel the magnitude of the issues people with disabilities
face on a global basis are too large to even imagine solutions in our lifetime.
While we see significant improvements in the US, Western Europe, Canada and
Singapore and modest improvements in Japan, India and various parts of the
Middle East, the majority of people with disabilities live elsewhere.
Even if we just focus on the nations where AT and other accommodations are
relatively good, we have such a huge delta to make up in any measure of daily
productivity compared to our sighted counterparts, that even contemplating such
can be incredibly discouraging. Some of us (myself included) are lucky enough
to have an expert level in the field that knowledge outweighs typical measures
of productivity but jobs for the blind equivalent of a ditch digger simply do
not exist. Everyone on this list has a terrific intellect and aptitude for a
very marketable set of skills but what of the tens of thousands of blinks who
would, if sighted, flip burgers or work at Wal-Mart?
Even those of us with access to all of the AT in the world perform tasks
quite a bit more slowly than our sighted counterparts (a function of the serial
nature of information input - one syllable or pause in audio and one line on a
Braille line) that we need to work much harder than those without a vision
impairment to accomplish the same goals. Often, the part that causes me the
greatest frustration is that I can often see potential inventions that would
improve productivity, estimate the cost to implement (then multiply by 4 to get
a realistic figure) but cannot find anyone interested in funding such projects
and find that the AT companies are cold to doing anything more than the minimum
to move forward.
On the opposite side of the coin, days like Monday when I make a really cool
breakthrough in some software I'm making really feels good and is much more
rewarding than adding a feature to a financial analysis program (where my
career started) so the intangibles sometimes are far greater than the sadness
caused by looking at the global picture.
Sorry for the rant, it's just how I feel this morning.
Enjoy,
cdh
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Arnold Bailey
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:32 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: sectiob 508 question
Just an added comment .. Many states are individually referring to Section
508 requirements for their state agencies. Here in Florida we have a position
paper for our state to conform. IMHO I think any company who provides
software/hardware to the federal government must be concerned with 508. If
they're smart, business wise, they will foresee that shortly most states will
have the law. That's why I think there are real opportunities for Accessibility
wise programmers opening up.
Arnold
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Sina Bahram <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Gosh, and Chris knows that I should know better. Sorry about that blunder. I
was on my way out of the house and quickly hit send without doing a review.
Chris, thanks for the correction bud.
Take care,
Sina
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:35 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: sectiob 508 question
A slight correction to Sina's comment: Section 508 does not apply to private
sector corporations that do not do business with the government. The
pending Target case and those that came before (AmericaWest Airlines, MARTA,
etc.) used the argument under ADA that says that "all places of public
accommodation be made accessible" and the NFB lawyers are claiming that in
the information age, a web site is, in fact, a place. A couple of the
circuit courts have upheld the web site is a place theory and no one has
appealed it to the Supremes yet.
While they all have similar sounding language regarding people with
disabilities, Section 508, Section 255 (telecommunications act), Section 504
(rehabilitation act but on education and people with disabilities), IDEA and
ADA all have their own subtle nuances that make the soup of disability
related regs in the US such a mess.
There is currently a movement in the US Senate to pass a new ADA that will
clarify many of the difficulties and ambiguities with the current version
which contains the very nasty word, "reasonable" which is entirely subject
to the definition of a judge or jury. You should all write to your congress
people and US senators to encourage them to support the "ADA Restoration
Act."
Off of Soapbox,
cdh
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:04 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: sectiob 508 question
Even that's not necessarily true anymore.
Please see the case against Target in the US for details.
Take care,
Sina
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:22 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: sectiob 508 question
Note that private companies that have nothing to do with the government have
nothing to fear if they are a private company and Aare selling to the
government tools that will be used on the job in the government then they
are affected only if that software will be used by a person with a
disability because if a person doesn't complain they will not be hunted.
They should be forced by this law to convert even if no one complains but
that is not the way the real world works.
Ken
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marlon Brandão
de Sousa
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:54 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: sectiob 508 question
Agreed but I was asking how it works in the real world and not what is it in
theory, cinse I really want to know if it is being applied and if law swites
are being applied against private companies based on section 508 or on
whatever other law if for example their websites are not accessible.
Marlon
2008/4/1, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>
> This faq explains who it affects and who is exempt.
>
> http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/brochure.htm
>
> Ken
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marlon
> Brandão de Sousa
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:24 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: sectiob 508 question
>
> Hi,
> Although this does not relate to programming, this does relate to
> blind programming. Do you know if section 508 only relates to public
> services or if relates also to private services?
> Like does section 508 must be applied in sites from private companies
> or only the govern sites have to comply with what it says?
> Thanks a lot,
> Marlon
> --
> When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
> stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for free."
> Linus Torvalds
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