Re: programming on Windows (was RE: Any support/suggestions for a blind student)

  • From: Tyler Littlefield <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:45:28 -0600

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O... One last comment:
As for them making it hard/impossible to install closed source, all you
have to do assuming they did take the mirror out for that is to go edit
sources.list and add it back, no problem.

On 9/10/2010 7:43 AM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:
> I don't think this is true, and there are open sourced apps that will
> play mp3s, like mplayer.
> you can use Vinux's speech install, or (my soon to come) tutorial on
> installing a basic version of debian from grml and getting it up with ssh.
> HTH,
> On 9/10/2010 7:40 AM, Alex Midence wrote:
>> Well, I tried to get it but never managed to get my pc to boot up with
>> it.  Tried using it on an old pc.  Heard you can install linux using a
>> serial cable and another pc as a terminal.  May try that some day.
>> Also, disturbingly, it seems someone has gone and made Vinux
>> completely strictly libra open source as in, won't download or install
>> anything not libra or open source.  Even edited the script file to
>> make it that much harder for you.  People have had a hard time doing
>> such mundane things as playing mp3 files with it because the media
>> player included only plays ogg files since they are open source and
>> mp3 is closed source.  This is making me want to stay away from vinux.
>>  I want to be FREE yes, FREE, I said, to pick and choose whatever app
>> I want to install on my own machine.  If I want to, I'll install a
>> closed source, and if I want to, I'll install an open source.  I don't
>> want some system preventing me from exercising that freedom.  Perhaps
>> this is hearsay but if it's not, whoever implemented this policy is
>> just as bad as any closed source vendor they despise since they are
>> also restricting the end user's freedom in some way.
> 
>> Sorry, didn't mean to rant that much.  I had to grab a dvd burning
>> software to open the iso file only to find out that it's probably not
>> all its cracked up to be.  This burning software appears to have
>> ruined my cd/dvd burner at home.  Stay away from img burn, btw.
> 
>> Alex M
> 
>> On 8/30/10, black ares <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> you can search for orca accessible applications.
>>> There you will find the list.
>>> Vinux is very beauty full, but still have the general linux problems,
>>> problems that make me to stay away from it.
>>> But, Vinux team has made a lot of efort to create a distro that is very
>>> suited for blind people.
>>> Also it is a repaired one, more problems that I've encountered in the grand
>>> distros (fedora, ubuntu) disappeared from Vinux.
>>> Mainly, the only problem I have with vinux is that, when I plug my phones on
>>> to my laptop, the speakers don't get muted and I found no configuration to
>>> do jack sense.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Alex Midence" <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: programming on Windows (was RE: Any support/suggestions for a
>>> blind student)
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'd heard of Vinux but hadn't ever looked into it.  I'm enormously
>>>> intrigued.  I may create a live cd and try it out on an old pc I've
>>>> got in my tool closet just collecting dust.  Does there exist a
>>>> comprehensive list or, even a small one, of all the accessible apps
>>>> for Linux?  Any of them taht are just absolutely, in no way
>>>> accessible?  Any link would be appreciated.  Also, you are welcome to
>>>> e-mail me privately so we don't spam the list with off topic stuff.
>>>> Thank for the link.
>>>>
>>>> Alex M
>>>>
>>>> On 8/30/10, Don Marang <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> If the only reason to install XP is to run SigWin, why not just install
>>>>> the
>>>>> real thing?  Try Vinux, a blind friendly distribution of Ubuntu.  It
>>>>> provides and configures several screen readers, like SpeakUp for it's
>>>>> consoles and Orca for the gnome GUI desktop.  It also has two magnifiers.
>>>>> The Vinux community is solving many of the Linux accessibility and voice
>>>>> stability issues.  It has a fully accessible installer that can either
>>>>> use
>>>>> the entire internal drive or install side by side with Windows for a dual
>>>>> boot configuration.  It can also run from a live disk, a USB pen drive,
>>>>> or a
>>>>> Virtual Machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out
>>>>> http://vinux.org.uk
>>>>>
>>>>> I just added a bash script, speedy-ocr, to the Vinux repository which
>>>>> uses
>>>>> the free tesseract or cuneiform OCR software to provide simplified
>>>>> scanning
>>>>> and performing OCR on any image file or files.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don Marang
>>>>>
>>>>> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any
>>>>> real
>>>>> substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am
>>>>> working
>>>>> on things that matter.
>>>>> Dean Kamen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "DaShiell, Jude T.  CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26"
>>>>> <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 7:50 AM
>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Subject: RE: programming on Windows (was RE: Any support/suggestions for
>>>>> a
>>>>> blind student)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you very much for these resources, they may be useful at home if I
>>>>>> can end up installing Windows XP myself using screen narrator.  None of
>>>>>> these resources will be useful at work since we work in a locked down
>>>>>> software environment.  Anything not already approved for use costs
>>>>>> dollars and takes a year to get approved if everyone does everything
>>>>>> right all along the line for the software approval.  That doesn't always
>>>>>> happen either.  Screen readers for Linux do exist and the Mac has
>>>>>> VoiceOver but Linux has http://www.linuxspeakup.org/ and
>>>>>> http://speakupmodified.org/ among others to examine.  Screen readers are
>>>>>> like Center Fielders with catching gloves on both hands.  If right field
>>>>>> is input and left field is output and center field are peripherals, and
>>>>>> interaction in that system is considered the ball, the interaction
>>>>>> between keyboard and computer is caught translated and spoken as is the
>>>>>> text going from computer to screen.  Sometimes done with sound cards and
>>>>>> hardware speech synthesizers any more these days once there was a time
>>>>>> when the Screen Rover did it differently.  A camera was set up so it
>>>>>> could capture the screen and O.C.R. was done on camera input which was
>>>>>> converted to computer ascii and that ascii was then sent to a hardware
>>>>>> screen reader.  Unfortunately screen rover went off the market since if
>>>>>> it hadn't blind people probably would been lots more effective reading
>>>>>> more sites and not having to deal with all of these accessibility
>>>>>> issues.  The reason for me to install windows xp on a home computer at
>>>>>> all is to perhaps install cygwin and/or mingw and djgpp utilities and
>>>>>> see what type of unix-like development I can do successfully on that
>>>>>> platform.  Since I can't do this at work, I'm willing to experiment with
>>>>>> a computer at home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> arachna@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 17:45
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: programming on Windows (was RE: Any support/suggestions for a
>>>>>> blind student)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I ran across the following post in the list archives by accident when
>>>>>> searching for something with Google and it piqued my curiousity:
>>>>>> "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26" wrote on 16 March 2010:
>>>>>>> As I see it, Microsoft made two mistakes with Windows which until
>>>>>> they're corrected the best software for those
>>>>>> of us with no memory of vision to program for will be Linux in its
>>>>>> varied forms.
>>>>>>> First, the command line interface was made into a very poorly equipped
>>>>>> environment for software development.
>>>>>>> Second, if someone does console-based development of software within
>>>>>> Windows to my knowledge to date no xenity equivalents yet exist for any
>>>>>> supported software development package now running on Windows; I would
>>>>>> love to be
>>>>>> corrected on this point if at all possible even if packages under active
>>>>>> development are all that can be offered as suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would dialog be a decent replacement for zenity on Windows?  I have a
>>>>>> how-to on building dialog for OpenWatcom here:
>>>>>> http://www.openwatcom.org/index.php/Dialog_howto
>>>>>> It's very similar to build it on mingw and msys.  There are just a few
>>>>>> less places to patches.  I can put together the mingw patch if someone
>>>>>> needs it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, did a quick search of zenity and win32 to check if someone
>>>>>> had ported it yet and ran across this:
>>>>>> http://www.placella.com/software/zenity/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been experimenting with the idea of using dialog with bash or v8cgi
>>>>>> to create menus that will work in or out of X Windows on FreeBSD and
>>>>>> Linux.  Since I like to program cross-platform, the menus would work on
>>>>>> Windows just as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are at least 3 versions of bash I know of for Windows.  Cygwin,
>>>>>> djgpp and msys all have one.
>>>>>> Here's a stand-alone package based on Cygwin:
>>>>>> http://www.steve.org.uk/Software/bash/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other tool I've been looking at for cross-platform scripting that
>>>>>> I'm really starting to like is v8cgi:
>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/v8cgi/
>>>>>> Syntax will be more familiar to C/C++ programmers than bash is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since I'm not a blind user, I've been wondering just how the visually
>>>>>> impaired use console based tools.  Does the terminal emulator or some
>>>>>> such software read the information out loud, because the programs
>>>>>> themselves usually don't add speech capability?  Read an example on the
>>>>>> INX list where someone used tee and sent the information to espeak as
>>>>>> well as the menu.  I was wondering how hard it would be to add an option
>>>>>> to dialog that sent the information it drew out to another program like
>>>>>> espeak.  However, if a screen reader program already exists and works
>>>>>> fine with dialog and other software, that would be a more general
>>>>>> purpose solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other option I've been checking into is using the browser and
>>>>>> Javascript for the programming environment, but the one thing still
>>>>>> lacking is being able to shell out to other local programs and use the
>>>>>> results.  There are some work-arounds for this specific to browsers, but
>>>>>> I'm waiting to find out if a more portable solution becomes available.
>>>>>> What I'd really like is a merge of a Javascript server side language
>>>>>> like v8cgi with the ability to create an interface like a browser can.
>>>>>> Of course, since it could do local file access, the Internet access part
>>>>>> should probably be shut off for security reasons.  The other drawback to
>>>>>> the browser approach is that relatively few console based or light
>>>>>> weight browsers fully support Javascript and css standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would be curious to know what's lacking in the Windows console
>>>>>> environment for software development that's available in other
>>>>>> environments like Linux.  I use mingw and msys all the time for quick
>>>>>> console development.  I use the DOS command prompt and have customized
>>>>>> it to a way I'm comfortable with, but other options like Console 2 are
>>>>>> available and I believe Cygwin has a limited port of rxvt.  There are a
>>>>>> number of good compilers that work from console mode, including mingw,
>>>>>> djgpp and OpenWatcom.  There are also some decent shell script languages
>>>>>> such as bash if batch files aren't enough.  I haven't found any
>>>>>> information on ncurses working on Windows, but you do have pdcurses.  I
>>>>>> also I read about a Windows port of vifm to Windows, so I would guess
>>>>>> that means s-lang is available as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Couldn't resist discussing this topic even though the original post was
>>>>>> from some time ago.  I've been very interested in some of the subjects
>>>>>> and would enjoy hearing other programmers viewpoints on them as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>> http://www.distasis.com/cpp
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- -- 
Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
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