Don't regret bringing it up. I think it's great that Tyler got it working on the 64 bit machine. It probably isn't something someone wants to upgrade but you never know someone might want to make an alternative to the new up and coming translation software. I only complained about the code because like David said it kind of made me dizzy trying to follow all the loops and additions to what I could see was the original base core. I think it is important to keep this around for the same reason I wanted to compile it under cygwin and Linux. I was comparing it to LibLouis for a current project I am working on. So no matter how messy the code is it's nice to have another tool. ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 11:32 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: nfbtrans conversion Hi, In many ways, I regret having brought this up, although I certainly do appreciate the help. I want to provide a little background that might make a number of things clearer and thereby respond to several notes. NFBTRANS started as a Pascal program perhaps thirty years ago that was run under DOS written by a staff person of our organization for internal use. There was a period when it was available commercially but this didn't seem to be the route to take so the source code was released. As I understand it, it was converted to C using a pascal-to-C converter and many, many enhancements were made by mostly one volunteer. I suspect that the code of most programs that have been around for that long is not terribly neat. Also, it is my understanding that the assembly code was not required in all cases but only when compiled under certain compilers. That was the case many years ago and may not even be the case today at all, I don't know for certain about that. There is a lot that could be done with this code and this software in general, but my purpose in providing information on it was specifically to get it running as it is under 64-bit systems. There was a PowerBasic front end that was known as WINBRL that provided a GUI interface. However, there is no further development there, either. It is my opinion that any effort to make major changes to the code would be better placed toward the furthering of John Boyer's Braille Blaster project. This is really pretty complicated software, especially when going from text to contracted braille where formatting commands are implemented. We may even find that a clean compile may not guarantee that there are not bugs, or at least this is one warning I have received. However, if NFBTRANS could be made to work on 64-bit platforms fairly easily as appears might be the case, it would fill a short term gap for many of us until something better and more modern in its design comes along. This could be Braille Blaster, or maybe even something else built upon the LibLouis work. In the meantime, I am very grateful to those who have worked upon this over the years, and the funny thing is that when I translated a file and got the results I wanted, it just never dawned upon me what the code looked like. I well know that is not the way to do development on a tightly structured project, but this software never was that. However, it worked for a long time for very many people and still fills a gap. John, as you know, I have looked at and like much of what is being done with LIBLOUIS and think that there is a lot of potential. I have more to learn about it, but I did have some difficulty getting a nicely formatted document out of Word, but I don't know for sure if it was within the translator or how the structure of the document gets saved to XML. For example, hanging indents in Word did not hang in braille. I found that I had to be careful how I saved as XML, too, to avoid having the text split up. Some words had spaces within them, for example. There is more for me to understand, and I know you have more work to do, so it is not fair for me to make a judgment on my very small amount of experience. I guess this is why I don't see a quick and dirty fix of NFBTRANS as competing with what you are trying to do, but rewriting NFBTRANS would, and I think would be a waste of time. Again, thanks to everyone for the help they have given, but I would urge John to give us specifics as to what he needs and maybe we can be of help. Best regards, Steve Jacobson __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind